It's that anniversary again

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Missing Lambo

Missing Lambo

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2011
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Chester
I spent the day with grandchildren in Liverpool yesterday. There's a great little activity in the Museum of Liverpool in which children are encouraged to ask grandparents about their experiences of growing up. As I recalled, with some pride, growing up in Southampton I was struck time and again by the similarities between the City that I return to so that I can watch my sporting heroes, and the City I love so much after most of a lifetime living near or in it.

I believe that you should support a club that means something to you, and I have always been a very proud Saints fan, even during the doldrums. So while my Grandchildren were sporting their Stevie G shirts, the old man was wearing his Saints shirt. Yesterday there seemed to be even more Red shirts than ever, of course. But the "People's Club" Blue was also strongly evident. As ever, the Saints shirt drew comments as we queued for entry to various events. The difference was that no-one was talking football. The victory against City hardly merited a mention. Scousers are usually lively company and as we all enjoyed or endured those being paid to entertain our children in various locations they laughed and groaned and quipped as much as ever. But there was an inherent sadness about the place. It was hard to pin point it, but I realised this morning that not one Red had asked me when Lallana was going to sign for them (a common theme lately) and no Blue had expressed a view on Suarez. Football was not mentioned.

Losing someone at a football match is beyond comprehension. To do so and then have the authorities conspire to rob you of the truth makes this loss even harder to bear. My fervent hope is that when this anniversary comes around again, those 96 souls will be able to rest in peace. There must be Justice for the 96, and it must not be simply Liverpool fans who demand this.
 
Well said.

Those 96 people did what we do week in, week out. They went to watch a football match, but they never returned. I go to football with my dad, brother, daughter, nephew and niece - the thought that 25 years ago we would probably be in danger of our lives doesn't now bear thinking about. Every now and again I look around our lovely all seater stadium with no fencing or barriers, and spare a thought for the 96 that died in such an appalling fashion that prompted football clubs to provide us with these facilities that we now probably take for granted. 25 years ago, I would not have taken my daughter, nephew and niece to a football match (though surprisingly my dad took me!). I actually asked my dad not so long ago what was he thinking taking his two young sons to football in the 80s (I also have an ethnic heritage) - thankfully the only heartache we suffered has been during the 90 minutes on the pitch. We all moan how football has changed, but in some ways it is for the better - I can go to a football match and not feel threatened and watch it in relative comfort, with hindsight it was very different in 1989.

The press and the authorities behaved disgustingly at the time and thankfully, the truth (that we all suspected from the beginning) has come out.

To the the 96, I hope you rest in peace and justice prevails.

JFT96
 
lamballana said:
Well said. Its taken far too long. Lets hope the truth is revealed and the guilty are punsished.
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There's a lot of guilty people though.

The FA for selecting Hillsborough when it obviously wasn't safe or suitable.
The Police
And the Liverpool fans that went to the game without tickets and stormed the gates.

The innocent died due to the ignorace of others.

I feel for the families but I also feel for the constables who will be charged. They had orders and I know I wouldn't want to be in their position, I hope the higher up police officers who called the shots are the ones that are convicted.
 
SaintsForTheWin said:
There's a lot of guilty people though.

The FA for selecting Hillsborough when it obviously wasn't safe or suitable.
The Police
And the Liverpool fans that went to the game without tickets and stormed the gates.

The innocent died due to the ignorace of others.

I feel for the families but I also feel for the constables who will be charged. They had orders and I know I wouldn't want to be in their position, I hope the higher up police officers who called the shots are the ones that are convicted.
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Evidence?

Let's wait for the report before apportioning blame.
 
lamballana said:
Well said. Its taken far too long. Lets hope the truth is revealed and the guilty are punsished.
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Spelling mistake aside - taking this statement out of the intended context and then looking at the calendar for this weekend I'd say it's taken over 2000 years so far.

I too hope the families find peace and healing for the pain they have suffered.
 
Lambo is a scouser - rejoice! said:
Evidence?

Let's wait for the report before apportioning blame.
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I don't think you can argue with what SaintsForTheWin is saying. Its interesting that you chose to highlight just one bit of what he said.

Its a tragedy what happened on that day, I remember watching it on TV and one just had that "there but for the grace of God" feeling. However, everyone involved needs to own up, if you like. I know there is this perceived need to find a scapegoat but it was in reality a number of people making bad decisions that lead to it and I think you would have to include some (only some please note) Liverpool fans in that group.

I have only once heard a Liverpool fan say this on the radio and it meant so much more than all the other buck- passing, lying, fixing the evidence stuff that you hear from other parties involved.

Of course it is right to find out if things could have been done differently and it is also right to prosecute anyone found guilty of any offence. Arguably, good things have happened because of Hillsborough in the design of comfortable and safe stadia, such that we will hopefully never see a repeat.

However, no-one intentionally caused this tragedy to happen. I say this because I was also watching TV when The Heysel Stadium 'disaster' happened which was in some ways just as shocking. This was caused by the actions of individual 'fans' although I know there is a theory put about at the time that these were National Front members from London!

In the search for truth at Hillsborough, its as if Heysel has been airbrushed from history and I think it would mean more if somehow this could at least be acknowledged.
 
Your point about Heysel may be right, if the timing is poor. Wasn't Heysel investigated and LFC fans found guilty? Heysel is not airbrushed by Scousers. It is simply that Hillsborough needs investigating as a separate event.As for my highlighting, this was deliberate. The role of the fans (and yes some may be held responsible) has never been properly investigated, and it should be. There is now no question that the Police lied and that the inquest was a cover up.
 
Hillsborough was a bad choice for this match, fans arrived late, a decision made to open a gate because of pressure from outside...all errors, but none were meant malevolently. Errors of judgement were then made which compounded the situation and people died who may have lived. The real crime was not investigating what happened properly....compounding the families suffering. A little cover up became a big cover up. I must say that I believed the fans outside were to blame, especially bearing in mind the Heysel incident, but that doesn't mean that I blamed the dead (something Liverpool fans always seemed to believe if you even questioned what happened). A full investigation is better late than never, but many of those involved will be dead or elderly now.
 
Hillsborough was an accident waiting to happen....I was in the very same Leppings Lane end five years prior to that tragic event and the treatment that we recieved from the South Yorkshire Police was to say the least less than respectful. Maybe it's because they were "battle hardened" by the miner's strike but their attitude was that everyone was a potential hooligan and we were all herded into the ground and pens like cattle, I can distinctly remember feeling mild panic as the fans behind started pushing forward. Of course I can't comment on the particular events that occured in April 1989 but I feel lucky that the same fate never befell me in 1984.
 
I felt the same at our semifinal at White Hart Lane in 1986, ironically against Liverpool, whose fans, like ours, were as good as gold. We were all treated like cattle there, and there was a lot of pushing and shoving behind the goal where we were standing. The whole thing pissed me off and frightened me so much I stopped going to football for many years. If Hillsborough hadn't happened, something similar would have happened somewhere else.
 
Fortunately I have only experienced all seater stadiums apart from Peterborough but these days it's perfectly safe as they don't overfill their standing areas. I remember fondly the trip to Peterborough when we won 3-1. I can't believe how bad football supporters were treated before the Hillsborough tragedy. I am so fortunate I wasn't alive when that happened and that I have always gone to football matches knowing I will be safe and comfortable.
 
Lambo is a scouser - rejoice! said:
Your point about Heysel may be right, if the timing is poor. Wasn't Heysel investigated and LFC fans found guilty? Heysel is not airbrushed by Scousers. It is simply that Hillsborough needs investigating as a separate event.As for my highlighting, this was deliberate. The role of the fans (and yes some may be held responsible) has never been properly investigated, and it should be. There is now no question that the Police lied and that the inquest was a cover up.
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Can't argue with that.
 
ChilcoSaint:6355119 said:
I felt the same at our semifinal at White Hart Lane in 1986, ironically against Liverpool, whose fans, like ours, were as good as gold. We were all treated like cattle there, and there was a lot of pushing and shoving behind the goal where we were standing. The whole thing pissed me off and frightened me so much I stopped going to football for many years. If Hillsborough hadn't happened, something similar would have happened somewhere else.
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The principal reason I stopped regularly going to football, back in the 1980's was that, as a football supporter you were always treated as if you were guilty unless found innocent, by police, authorities, and by the non-football watching public, back then. It didn't help that I was the only one in my circle who used to go to football in the first place, so I eventually stopped. It came as little surprise when Hillsborough happened. When people are treated with the same care as a herd of cattle things will inevitably go wrong.

From the perspective of people outside of football, I can you that the impression was that it was just football fans bringing despair to themselves by their own actions. We know that isn't the case, but I can still sense that odour if I think back.

These days, by and large, supporters are treated hugely differently. All seater stadiums should mean that the mechanisms which triggered the Hillsborough tragedy will never happen again.
 
On this day, I don't even stop to think about the blame, the reasons, the wrong decisions or the choice of venue; I only have the thought that tragically 96 people died going to watch a football match. I feel for those people and the families and friends of those people.

Yes, things need to be put right, but today I remember those that died and their families.
 
fatletiss said:
On this day, I don't even stop to think about the blame, the reasons, the wrong decisions or the choice of venue; I only have the thought that tragically 96 people died going to watch a football match. I feel for those people and the families and friends of those people.

Yes, things need to be put right, but today I remember those that died and their families.
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Spot on. Today is not the day for apportioning blame. Today is a day for remembering the victims of this truly horrible disaster, and since the scale of the cover-up was revealed, the remembrance has taken on a whole new dimension. The disaster has left a permanent mark on the sport, and the country as a whole, and to spend the day pointing fingers is just wrong.

My thoughts are with the families and friends of the victims today, and I hope that one day Justice For The 96 is really found.
 
fatletiss said:
On this day, I don't even stop to think about the blame, the reasons, the wrong decisions or the choice of venue; I only have the thought that tragically 96 people died going to watch a football match. I feel for those people and the families and friends of those people.

Yes, things need to be put right, but today I remember those that died and their families.
Click to expand...

I always tend to agree with you, FLT. I agree today is for thinking of those who lost relatives. My point is that, in Liverpool, the fact that the there was a cover up (and Sun slurs) massively increases the hurt. Scousers are an empathetic lot. They feel for the families of those 96. Had there been honesty then those families could have moved on, and so too would the City. I know of no-one who welcomes the controversy, but it always there.

Personally, the Hicks always get me. Their daughters were the same age as my two sons, who also went to the game that day but were not in the Leppings lane. On such chance life was changed. We should not be demanding to know the truth 25 years on.
 
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