It's supposed to be Wednesday, but I fear there's a chance it will be delayed until after our game next Sunday.
Name change discussion
- Thread starter RicardoHCAFC
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It's supposed to be Wednesday, but I fear there's a chance it will be delayed until after our game next Sunday.
Okay, The Omega Man, I’ll try and bring some reality to your comments.
I have never, ever said that a Supporters Trust, in itself, was pie-in-the-sky; what I have said, when you read it in context to the running conversation, is that a Supporters Trust is pie-in-the-sky in terms of a solution to the financial crisis that Assem Allam has inferred we have.
He has stated, time and again that he has no more money to invest and that he will walk away – those’ walkaway’ comments were a thinly veiled threat to the supporters (his customers).
His statements have changed overtime and the comments that were made, by me and others, were relevant to that time and maybe still relevant, or maybe not. What you should not do is quote me out of context, out of timeline and definitely not out of any relationship to the truth – you are doing all of these three.
OLM has adequately corrected your incorrect statements regarding how Supporters Trusts can be formed; likewise, he has also corrected you about your incorrect statements regarding the intentions of CTWD. For some reason you take anecdotal comment, comment easily misconstrued, and turn it into fact and official policy: why? Their (CTWD) official statements are easily found, easily read, well stated and unambiguous, so why do you constantly chose to ignore them?
The only reason the development of the KC is not possible is that an integral player in the process is having a hissy fit and is alienating far too many people for the ongoing wellbeing of our football club and that bothers me, even if it doesn’t bother you.
The Ehab interview was just a continuation of the BIG LIE; if you wish to be taken in by it that is your problem. The figures he talked about have as much relevance to the situation as Tinkerbell’s magic wand; the situation is all about his blocked development aspirations and his subsequent vendetta against HCC. What boils my blood is that he has chosen to use the good faith, loyalty and patronage of us, the club supporters to vent his spleen; on the other hand what I admire are the guys (and gals) who have created, structured, represented and joined City Till We Die or CTWD as it is now internationally known – they are the people who have caused others to become involved and highlight just how pathetic the stance of our owners truly is. I respect your right to not be a member, of course I do; I do not respect your mealy-mouthed congratulations and pompous praise for them that flowers your constant sniping and bitter and mostly incorrect criticisms. That might sound harsh, but it exactly how you are now coming across on this board and that is a great shame as I know you to be otherwise.
Any Supporters Trust would need to be able to get things right, be honest and reliable and share those attributes with the incumbent owner. I am seeing nothing that measures up at the moment, that is, nothing outside of what might emerge from CTWD – but that would not be able to work with these owners and I definitely would not support such a union.
You have built yourself a very poor position that is losing you much credibility; look back at the facts, look closely at the BIG LIE and stop trying to put a price on everything – that can follow, as it surely will. Hull City AFC, nothing more, nothing less, there are times for compromise, but this is not one.
I have never, ever said that a Supporters Trust, in itself, was pie-in-the-sky; what I have said, when you read it in context to the running conversation, is that a Supporters Trust is pie-in-the-sky in terms of a solution to the financial crisis that Assem Allam has inferred we have.
He has stated, time and again that he has no more money to invest and that he will walk away – those’ walkaway’ comments were a thinly veiled threat to the supporters (his customers).
His statements have changed overtime and the comments that were made, by me and others, were relevant to that time and maybe still relevant, or maybe not. What you should not do is quote me out of context, out of timeline and definitely not out of any relationship to the truth – you are doing all of these three.
OLM has adequately corrected your incorrect statements regarding how Supporters Trusts can be formed; likewise, he has also corrected you about your incorrect statements regarding the intentions of CTWD. For some reason you take anecdotal comment, comment easily misconstrued, and turn it into fact and official policy: why? Their (CTWD) official statements are easily found, easily read, well stated and unambiguous, so why do you constantly chose to ignore them?
The only reason the development of the KC is not possible is that an integral player in the process is having a hissy fit and is alienating far too many people for the ongoing wellbeing of our football club and that bothers me, even if it doesn’t bother you.
The Ehab interview was just a continuation of the BIG LIE; if you wish to be taken in by it that is your problem. The figures he talked about have as much relevance to the situation as Tinkerbell’s magic wand; the situation is all about his blocked development aspirations and his subsequent vendetta against HCC. What boils my blood is that he has chosen to use the good faith, loyalty and patronage of us, the club supporters to vent his spleen; on the other hand what I admire are the guys (and gals) who have created, structured, represented and joined City Till We Die or CTWD as it is now internationally known – they are the people who have caused others to become involved and highlight just how pathetic the stance of our owners truly is. I respect your right to not be a member, of course I do; I do not respect your mealy-mouthed congratulations and pompous praise for them that flowers your constant sniping and bitter and mostly incorrect criticisms. That might sound harsh, but it exactly how you are now coming across on this board and that is a great shame as I know you to be otherwise.
Any Supporters Trust would need to be able to get things right, be honest and reliable and share those attributes with the incumbent owner. I am seeing nothing that measures up at the moment, that is, nothing outside of what might emerge from CTWD – but that would not be able to work with these owners and I definitely would not support such a union.
You have built yourself a very poor position that is losing you much credibility; look back at the facts, look closely at the BIG LIE and stop trying to put a price on everything – that can follow, as it surely will. Hull City AFC, nothing more, nothing less, there are times for compromise, but this is not one.
Thats just rubbish fez sorry peddled by obi. Sorry it is. The quotes are out there. Brady would put it to a referendum, never mind platitudes in a back room to ctwd. He would put it to a referendum. There is as much chance of a yes to that as there is a yes to the suburbs wanting to be taken over by HCC.
Hull City Council are extremely unlikely to sell the freehold to Assem Allam so there's no need for a referendum. Councillor Brady's door is open to Assem Allam, so is Alan Johnson's, to develop the area in partnership. Hull City Council and Alan Johnson want to develop the site and are trying to get the club on board. They are not going to wait forever, especially if after next week he digs out plans for a move to Melton.
Addistiger
I have read your comments with interest; unfortunately, unlike some, I fine them poorly made.
If you have been following this unfortunate name-change debacle, then it certainly does not come across very well. There is no need for speculation as there is well documented proof that Allam wanted the stadium for nothing, just as there was a very damning public statement from HCC that discredited the business claims of Assem Allam - it has always been very significant that Allam made no effort to counter the HCC claims; something he undoubtedly would have done if his own untruthful version of events were correct. Since that day, he has simply perpetuated the lies until we have the BIG LIE. Where have you been? What facts have you tried to establish before writing your post?
His altruism has a commercial incentive, one that has been stymied, causing him to be a very bitter man. A bitterness he is now is using to bring our club into disrepute, one that is driving away support, rather than creating it, one that will deter investment and sponsorship, rather than attracting it, one that is making Hull Tigers synonymous with stupidity.
Success and skilful marketing bring recognition; we are currently playing in what us reputed to be the 'Best League In The World' and about to play in the semi-final of the FA Cup - all done with our proud and historic name Hull City AFC and our nickname 'The Tigers'; not bad, hey? All it needs now is someone with business acumen, marketing skills and no hidden agenda or vitriol, to take those name s and be proud of them.
What will be, will be, because some serious folk made a huge effort to establish the truth, represent the facts and fight the lies. It's a good example to follow.
Allam has never made an offer to HCC for them to turn down. No decision has been made for or against development, as the approach from Allam was mercenary and unrealistic. If someone came forward with a more commendable proposal then development is entirely possible, as it will not remain a wasteland forever. So I stand by my comment and suggest you revisit your reasoning.
Do you believe all of this nonsense from Allam is enhancing the reputation of our club?
Addistiger
I have read your comments with interest; unfortunately, unlike some, I fine them poorly made.
If you have been following this unfortunate name-change debacle, then it certainly does not come across very well. There is no need for speculation as there is well documented proof that Allam wanted the stadium for nothing, just as there was a very damning public statement from HCC that discredited the business claims of Assem Allam - it has always been very significant that Allam made no effort to counter the HCC claims; something he undoubtedly would have done if his own untruthful version of events were correct. Since that day, he has simply perpetuated the lies until we have the BIG LIE. Where have you been? What facts have you tried to establish before writing your post?
His altruism has a commercial incentive, one that has been stymied, causing him to be a very bitter man. A bitterness he is now is using to bring our club into disrepute, one that is driving away support, rather than creating it, one that will deter investment and sponsorship, rather than attracting it, one that is making Hull Tigers synonymous with stupidity.
Success and skilful marketing bring recognition; we are currently playing in what us reputed to be the 'Best League In The World' and about to play in the semi-final of the FA Cup - all done with our proud and historic name Hull City AFC and our nickname 'The Tigers'; not bad, hey? All it needs now is someone with business acumen, marketing skills and no hidden agenda or vitriol, to take those name s and be proud of them.
What will be, will be, because some serious folk made a huge effort to establish the truth, represent the facts and fight the lies. It's a good example to follow.
The claim that Allam wanted the Stadium for nothing is not as clear cut as you claim. There's a decent amount of information that suggests figures were offered and some amounts ran to tens of millions.
As a consequence of the press articles, rather than do nothing, the Allams offered to fund in inquiry into the whole affair. The Council didn't take this offer up.
Two revelations there. I have posted my view of it quite a number of times and this is the first time I have seen these matters you speak of. Do you have links that can show a price or an offer of an inquiry? I find it very strange that the so-called pro-name-changers have not been quoting this at every turn.
Where was it mentioned, on here? Why have you not used it if it is so against the CTWD agenda? This makes no sense at all.
Posted for reference
Quote Originally Posted by Hull City AFC (DMD) View Post
I don't disagree too much with what you've put. On the highlighted bit, as I understand it, Mr Assam asked for an internal inquiry into the incidents by the Council, which he ultimately offered to fund when the Council said it didn't have the time or resources. I suspect the fluid nature of the issue meant it became one in a number of factors, and that together they've brought us to where we are.
I think it could be worth remembering one Cllr was saying it's not for sale, some were talking of discussions, and the leader was suggesting a referendum.
edit, just noticed your bit about posting what you know as the board is anonymous. I've been told a fair amount I can't post on here, because while I may be sort of anonymous, the information could probably show where it came from, which would be disrespectful to those that shared it.
The huge failing in all of this is the lack of transparency. I totally respect your reason for not posting all of what you know, but I do think somebody should be.
Quote Originally Posted by Hull City AFC Melu View Post
Fez.
Assem Allam told me himself that he planned to give the club to the fans, if he told me I expect he told others.
I know what happened at the meeting but have been told in confidence and I will not break that. What I have been told also makes sense and fits with what is in the public domain. The person who told me does not post on here or any other board but he is held in high regard. I have no reason to doubt him, but some speculative posts seem to gain ground and they can cause damage.
You may have concerns over the honesty over those in control of the club, but that is only based on what you read isn't it?
Hi Mel,
I think AA is just another master of the corridor conversation; I would seriously believe that he will tell you whatever it is he thinks will float your particular boat.
As I have said to Dutch, the lack of transparency in all of this stinks to high heaven. It would seem that you, the reps, AA, his team, Uncle Tom Cobley and the crew of the good ship Venus all know what was said at the meeting. It's about time that someone decided to speak the truth and shame the devil. To prevent folk drawing harmful conclusions, I would recommend a little honesty. One of the things life has taught me is that lies travel by word of mouth far quicker than print; in the favour of print is the fact that you can study it and eliminate the person.
His (AA) conduct to date leaves a great deal to be desired.
Quote Originally Posted by Hull City AFC (DMD) View Post
I don't disagree too much with what you've put. On the highlighted bit, as I understand it, Mr Assam asked for an internal inquiry into the incidents by the Council, which he ultimately offered to fund when the Council said it didn't have the time or resources. I suspect the fluid nature of the issue meant it became one in a number of factors, and that together they've brought us to where we are.
I think it could be worth remembering one Cllr was saying it's not for sale, some were talking of discussions, and the leader was suggesting a referendum.
edit, just noticed your bit about posting what you know as the board is anonymous. I've been told a fair amount I can't post on here, because while I may be sort of anonymous, the information could probably show where it came from, which would be disrespectful to those that shared it.
The huge failing in all of this is the lack of transparency. I totally respect your reason for not posting all of what you know, but I do think somebody should be.
Quote Originally Posted by Hull City AFC Melu View Post
Fez.
Assem Allam told me himself that he planned to give the club to the fans, if he told me I expect he told others.
I know what happened at the meeting but have been told in confidence and I will not break that. What I have been told also makes sense and fits with what is in the public domain. The person who told me does not post on here or any other board but he is held in high regard. I have no reason to doubt him, but some speculative posts seem to gain ground and they can cause damage.
You may have concerns over the honesty over those in control of the club, but that is only based on what you read isn't it?
Hi Mel,
I think AA is just another master of the corridor conversation; I would seriously believe that he will tell you whatever it is he thinks will float your particular boat.
As I have said to Dutch, the lack of transparency in all of this stinks to high heaven. It would seem that you, the reps, AA, his team, Uncle Tom Cobley and the crew of the good ship Venus all know what was said at the meeting. It's about time that someone decided to speak the truth and shame the devil. To prevent folk drawing harmful conclusions, I would recommend a little honesty. One of the things life has taught me is that lies travel by word of mouth far quicker than print; in the favour of print is the fact that you can study it and eliminate the person.
His (AA) conduct to date leaves a great deal to be desired.
http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/237562-Allams-have-never-made-a-bid-for-the-KC-stadium/page14
This was the thread and the posts can be read in context and in fullness. If this is what is being referred to then, frankly, it is laughable. It discusses innuendo, hearsay and contrived opinion. Give me some facts to counter the ones we have seen from transparent and well publicised sources.
I am all for developing my opinion, but give me something substantial. I have what we have all seen, which are the allegations made by Geraghty against Assem Allam, the constant lies that the Allen's use to further their much disguised plans, whatever you might think they are. He lies to your face and you expect me to rely on what he told you in a meeting? Don't make me laugh; he saw someone he thought he would manipulate and it would seem . . .
Now give me one link where there is traceable comment, made by Allam or someone in a position of authority in the matter, that gives clear reference to the value of a bid by the Allams to HCC to purchase said stadium, etc.
Then give me one link where there is traceable comment, made by Allam or someone in a position of authority in the matter, that gives clear reference to the Allams offering to fund an I quiet I to the matter.
This should not be difficult, unless we are still, after a further 4-5 months, relying on innuendo, corridor conversations and one meeting where the agenda and motives cannot be discussed.
Speak the truth and shame the devil.
This was the thread and the posts can be read in context and in fullness. If this is what is being referred to then, frankly, it is laughable. It discusses innuendo, hearsay and contrived opinion. Give me some facts to counter the ones we have seen from transparent and well publicised sources.
I am all for developing my opinion, but give me something substantial. I have what we have all seen, which are the allegations made by Geraghty against Assem Allam, the constant lies that the Allen's use to further their much disguised plans, whatever you might think they are. He lies to your face and you expect me to rely on what he told you in a meeting? Don't make me laugh; he saw someone he thought he would manipulate and it would seem . . .
Now give me one link where there is traceable comment, made by Allam or someone in a position of authority in the matter, that gives clear reference to the value of a bid by the Allams to HCC to purchase said stadium, etc.
Then give me one link where there is traceable comment, made by Allam or someone in a position of authority in the matter, that gives clear reference to the Allams offering to fund an I quiet I to the matter.
This should not be difficult, unless we are still, after a further 4-5 months, relying on innuendo, corridor conversations and one meeting where the agenda and motives cannot be discussed.
Speak the truth and shame the devil.
Fez,
The problem is (and you have highlighted it often enough) that if something doesn't fit with someone agenda it does not get put in the public domain.
You want transparency, well you are never going to get it.
The problem is (and you have highlighted it often enough) that if something doesn't fit with someone agenda it does not get put in the public domain.
You want transparency, well you are never going to get it.
The Omega Man - a word of advice. I totally disregarded your inference that I had betrayed the content of a private telephone conversation; I did not, you have put everything and more information into the public domain via these threads.
Your profession is well known as you speak of it. Your interest in forming a Supporters Trust is equally well known. You told me you changed your name to have more anonymity; sorry, but you need to review that.
I understand that you might not wish for your professional life and your posting life to become intertwined, problem is, they are. You must either make a more successfull name-change and protect your anonymity by being far less active in the technical argument - it's one he'll of a signature. Or take the other option, stick to football, because you get dragged in. This is going to drag on because Allam wants it to.
Your profession is well known as you speak of it. Your interest in forming a Supporters Trust is equally well known. You told me you changed your name to have more anonymity; sorry, but you need to review that.
I understand that you might not wish for your professional life and your posting life to become intertwined, problem is, they are. You must either make a more successfull name-change and protect your anonymity by being far less active in the technical argument - it's one he'll of a signature. Or take the other option, stick to football, because you get dragged in. This is going to drag on because Allam wants it to.
You keep challenging it, that's what you do. Those early meeting minutes were critical and should have been published. The BIG LIE should take prominence. People who, through reasons of self-interest, set out to broker deals with a liar really should counter-check their every move.
These secrets you all keep are so sad it leaves you all pretty much ineffective in your opinion or posts; all you do I is stir the muddy water.
Fez,
I posted the pasted comment because it referred to DMD's post and you saying that you could not recall the subject being brought up before.
I have to admit that I had heard about Assem Allam offering to buy the KC, but I believe that the reason that he fell out with the council was because of how he was treated. He felt it was disrespectful. I also have always thought that the money offer was in the public domain and to be honest was a smokescreen.
I posted the pasted comment because it referred to DMD's post and you saying that you could not recall the subject being brought up before.
I have to admit that I had heard about Assem Allam offering to buy the KC, but I believe that the reason that he fell out with the council was because of how he was treated. He felt it was disrespectful. I also have always thought that the money offer was in the public domain and to be honest was a smokescreen.
This is my point, I never said that at all. I asked for reference to something that directly mentioned a price offer and the offer of funding an inquiry - unsubstantiated gossip doesn't cut the silk and that is all we have. That and the pathetic secrets that abound.
We had all heard rumour, but we read an undisputed (if it was, show me where) article contains an extensive interview with a councillor that said there was never an offer made.
Where in the public domain - I'm not interested in worthless gossip.