Mixed message. Assem Allam hasnt been told yet what constitutes consultation and yet he is critised, but even CTWD do not know for sure. This is what frustrates me, the inconsistency. It always comes across as spin.
Name change discussion
- Thread starter RicardoHCAFC
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Mixed message. Assem Allam hasnt been told yet what constitutes consultation and yet he is critised, but even CTWD do not know for sure. This is what frustrates me, the inconsistency. It always comes across as spin.
There's no mixed message, AA said he would ballot the fans, he changed his mind, the FA will either take that into account, or they won't. They are equally free to say they won't vote without a fan ballot, so they won't consider the application until the following FA Council meeting, it's entirely up to them.
Why did he change his mind? Anything to do with having his hand forced early due to the morons from CI?
OLM/Obi, do you believe if tenfoot hadn't been such a nob, do you think we'd have had a ballot or you'd at least have had a better chance at lobbying Dr Allam for one?
At the very least you'd have had the right to be indignant at not having a poll, but like I say, tenfoot changed all that with his childish cunning plan.
There isn't a mixed message. The FA could ask Hull City to organise a ballot before they would vote on the application but that doesn't fit with what you said earlier (possibly on a different thread) that the decision will be made in the second week of February.
As you know the FA rules don't contain anything about consultation, that's in the Premier League rules, so we could have a decision without a ballot. OLM has simply said that matter was raised by Assem Allam, we were happy for the club to ballot the season ticket holders. The Premier League said it would like a ballot. It is up to Hull City and the FA whether one takes place. City could organise one or be told by the FA to organise one. Both OLM and me would like a ballot but I don't expect to see one. Do you think there will be any kind of ballot in the next 5 weeks? It may be even less if the rumour on Facebook is correct and Assem Allam is to give his evidence to the FA this week.
If you think like me then all CTWD can do is say we'd have welcomed a ballot but the club didn't organise one. No spin, just accepting the reality that it is up to the club to organise a vote and they didn't. I don't see any difference of substance between OLM and me.
He changed his mind after we issued the press release agreed with the club. Nothing to do with Tenfoot.
I've given up predicting what Assem Allam would do, so I've no idea what would have happened if Tenfoot hadn't put his application in. It is perfectly possible that he would have made no application and just changed the name at Companies House thinking that was enough.
Who or what is Tenfoot? I've been following developments but this name hasn't cropped up before on my radar..
Tenfoot is a poster on CI who tried to register Hull Tigers with the East Riding FA, to stop anyone else using it.
Thank god for mods.
"The lack of a ballot will be something the FA should take into consideration."
"As you know the FA rules don't contain anything about consultation, that's in the Premier League rules, so we could have a decision without a ballot."
Obi the FA cannot order the club to hold a ballot as it is not in their rules. It therefore cannot reject the application on the basis that a ballot hasn't taken place nor can it take into consideration the lack of a ballot. The only question that would be asked is the one that I have posted if the club balloted its season pass holders. You made the point of fans in London who only get to 8 or 9 games not having a vote. That would mean that HCSS would only get a number of votes equal to its members season passes. So would a season pass holder ballot reflect the CTWD members wishes. Thats a big risk, in fact it the ballot would be a big risk by either side.
Why if Assem Allam had said at the meeting that he would ballot season pass holders, would CTWD seven days later call for him to do it in the press? I dont get the chain of events.
"As you know the FA rules don't contain anything about consultation, that's in the Premier League rules, so we could have a decision without a ballot."
Obi the FA cannot order the club to hold a ballot as it is not in their rules. It therefore cannot reject the application on the basis that a ballot hasn't taken place nor can it take into consideration the lack of a ballot. The only question that would be asked is the one that I have posted if the club balloted its season pass holders. You made the point of fans in London who only get to 8 or 9 games not having a vote. That would mean that HCSS would only get a number of votes equal to its members season passes. So would a season pass holder ballot reflect the CTWD members wishes. Thats a big risk, in fact it the ballot would be a big risk by either side.
Why if Assem Allam had said at the meeting that he would ballot season pass holders, would CTWD seven days later call for him to do it in the press? I dont get the chain of events.
For someone who claims to support the campaign, you spend an awful lot of time trying to pick holes in it.
AA offered a ballott, he immediately withdrew that offer, we've been publicly pushing for one ever since.
I'm picking holes in whats posted on here not what CTWD do. I would challenge a pro name change group, if I felt the need to or if one existed. What I post on here is my personal opinion. Fez is a member of CTWD and he questions what you and others post.
As for the ballot, Assem Allam only stated that he would not hold a ballot on the 20th of November, the day after CTWD issued a press statement calling for one. If he had said "I will hold a ballot" at the meeting the week before why would CTWD issue a statement asking for one and why if he had said he would hold a ballot and went against his word, wasnt that made public? So what is wrong with asking?
Then you should have issued some form of minutes of that meeting as this is a critical point. Minutes such as these are possible:
Meeting points that can be issued
Items (1) TO (18?)
The heading for these should have been
Full detail given, nothing to hide - this ballot claim should have been one of these declared items.
Items (19?) TO (30?) - 3 hours of meeting must have generated a far few items!!
The heading for these should have been
All detail with-held due to compromising nature - details will be published if requested if the club publishes something contrary to this record of events.
As I said I don't think there will be a ballot. The Premier League rules require Hull City to consult with their stakeholders, of which the supporters are one. It is reasonable for the FA to consider what consultation has taken place and whether it is adequate as we are a Premier League team who is expected to abide by the Premier League's rules.
Deciding on a constituency for a name change ballot is more complicated than deciding whether CTWD should restrict its membership to season ticket holders. If Assem Allam held a ballot of season ticket holders would it be reasonable to object because some of our Southern Supporters are not season ticket holders. On balance I don't see how we could argue against such a ballot in these circumstances.
If I remember correctly the press release didn't say we demanded a ballot but that we'd agreed at the meeting there would be one. I may be mistaken but that's my recollection.
Would a court consider it unreasonable if they told Hull City that they should hold a ballot to show support for the name change amongst its fans otherwise the application may be rejected? My personal view is that such a call with modern technology would be seen as reasonable. I doubt the FA will do this though, they just balance the lack of a ballot against the submissions received.
I don't see a mixed message; I see the campaign clearly saying they are not trying to second guess the exact approach of the FA.
I think we have to insert a touch of real life at this point:
1. Allem has his business resources to call upon to do his bidding in this issue, he also has those resources and his already established links with the establishment of football (FA/PL) at his beck and call without undue interference.
2. CTWD is a voluntary, part-time campaign group, who have been brought together to offer an element of unity regard the feelings against the name change. They have done a great deal in a relatively short period, while living their own lives and facing up to the brickbats that were inevitable in putting their collective heads above the trench wall.
3. Nobody really knows the scale and direction of the consultation, although I would think private conversations have been held on all sides - the inconsistency only comes about because people keep asking for answers where there are none, yet.
4. This is an opinion campaign; Allam may not wish to call it that, but that is what he has embroiled himself, and all of those of us who care about the history of our club, in - of course some things will come across from CTWD as spin, it is inevitable and correct, if they are to fight a robust campaign.
5. Allam does not do much in the way of spin, he sticks with lies, deceit, bullying and manipulation of his customers to get his point across, or not!
6. I will keep asking questions of the CTWD campaign, but I am 100% behind them in fighting this name-change and do not want that diluted over petty politics.
7. So Allem has been criticised unfairly because he has not been told what the consultation consists of; but would you not think that a man with an honorary doctorate and such a huge business-brain might have some preconception that some form of reasonable consultation is not just necessary, but highly appropriate and respectful to his customers.
8. Personally, my posts against Allam have no real purpose in criticism, as that is really something he attracts by self-promotion; no, my posts are in exasperation at the sheep who he is herding through the turnstiles, stamping their exposed arses on their way into the abattoir that is the heritage of our club and my contempt for Allam as a leader of our club and a man who puts himself above all others.
9. Let us hope that the small amount of spin CTWD employ is successful, because they need all of the help they can get.