Mboyo

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Tommytiger said:
I'm not trying to justify gang rape you berk; it's vile no matter which social class you come from. Where have I said that any kind of rape is fine?

My point (which I've made clearly and you are overlooking) is that people who are trying to move on from a mistake they've made should be allowed to do so. Clearly their actions aren't going to be forgiven by some, nor will they be forgotten, but how on Earth can you expect a person to build a new life if they're constantly dragged back by a mistake they made over a decade ago? They want to move on, fine: if that's through playing football, community work, donating to charity, whatever, the person is trying to show that they don't want to be defined by their actions. The way some people are talking about him on here, suggests that he's still committing the same crimes he did as a youth.

Liberal bollocks would be "**** all the laws, let's all sit on the grass, suck each other off and listen to the Lighthouse family." I'm actually an atheist, so a lot of what you perceive my belief system to be (along with pretty much all of your tripe of a contribution to this debate) is, in my opinion, wrong. You're probably the type of **** who starts on people in town because they knocked into you in a busy pub, instead of waiting to be apologised to and being bought a pint. I think it's fair to say that when you're dealing with people with a jaded, constrictive view like yours, you can't really get your point across without sounding a little 'out there' . I mean you wouldn't try and teach a dog trigonometry, so why should I bother trying to help you see from my point of view? I'm probably half your age (if you aren't over 45 then I despair if this is your attitude towards society) guessing by your Draconian stance on this and I'm much, much smarter than you. Because I actually understand your viewpoint; I don't have to agree with it to understand it. I understand the Holocaust, why it happened and the processes that made it so horrific, but I don't agree with any of it. It doesn't seem like you're trying to understand both sides of the argument, which is what debating stuff is all about, it just seems like you're trying to tell people your way of thinking is the right one, which is a crock of ****e.

If you're that much against freedom of speech (which judging by your responses so far, you perceive as a threat to your lifestyle), might I suggest not using the Internet, probably the last free medium of public information?
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Liberal bollocks again!
 
SuitedandBooted said:
Liberal bollocks again!
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I don't think you've realised that that word doesn't mean what you think it means. You aren't actually justifying your response, you're backed into a corner and I'm poking you with a stick. A stick that has the words 'you have no idea what I'm talking about do you?' carved into it with intricate lettering, with a lovely gloss finish throughout. And by being poked by said stick, you're proving to everybody what a ****ing moron you actually are.

The Bullshit Man said:
Gang rape isn't always a bad thing. Some people deserve it.
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I hear 9 out of 10 people enjoy it...
 
Tommytiger said:
My point (which I've made clearly and you are overlooking) is that people who are trying to move on from a mistake they've made should be allowed to do so. Clearly their actions aren't going to be forgiven by some, nor will they be forgotten, but how on Earth can you expect a person to build a new life if they're constantly dragged back by a mistake they made over a decade ago? They want to move on, fine: if that's through playing football, community work, donating to charity, whatever, the person is trying to show that they don't want to be defined by their actions. The way some people are talking about him on here, suggests that he's still committing the same crimes he did as a youth.

So if it was Ian Brady/Jon Venables/Mark Bridger/Gary Glitter/Delroy Grant, (all have committed various atrocious crimes), trying to move on in life, would you allow them to do so?
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SuitedandBooted said:
Tommytiger said:
My point (which I've made clearly and you are overlooking) is that people who are trying to move on from a mistake they've made should be allowed to do so. Clearly their actions aren't going to be forgiven by some, nor will they be forgotten, but how on Earth can you expect a person to build a new life if they're constantly dragged back by a mistake they made over a decade ago? They want to move on, fine: if that's through playing football, community work, donating to charity, whatever, the person is trying to show that they don't want to be defined by their actions. The way some people are talking about him on here, suggests that he's still committing the same crimes he did as a youth.

So if it was Ian Brady/Jon Venables/Mark Bridger/Gary Glitter/Delroy Grant, (all have committed various atrocious crimes), trying to move on in life, would you allow them to do so?
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Well, yeah. I mean, it obviously isn't as cut and dry as that. Letting them move on in life isn't saying "all is forgiven" and rightly so, but at the same time forever hounding them and bringing what they've done to light isn't going to make things better or be productive. I don't think they'll ever forget what they've done. But remember, remorse plays a big part. If they were in prison and went up for parole (hypothetically) and said "if you let me out, I'm going to do it again", of course you wouldn't let them out or forgive them because they haven't changed.

But those who are looking to move on, are genuinely remorseful of their actions and want to put something back into society should be allowed to do so. Those who get released and can't get a job end up on benefits, which are becoming an increasing drain on our economic climate. I'd rather a rapist came out of prison and said 'Right, I'm not going to do that again, I'll accept being under supervision, signing the sex offenders register etc, but I want to work to put something back into the country I've wronged." Why would that be a problem? They aren't being forgiven so to speak, but they're trying to move on with their lives in the right way, which everybody should be allowed to do.

EDIT: You sort of took that quote out of context, which was a tad sneaky, but look at it like this; if you had a sick child and the person who came up with a cure for cancer was formerly a convicted rapist, would you accept the cure or let your child die, simply because of your beliefs?
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Thing is Tommy, if something like this happened to your daughter..... You would not get over it.... And you would not be singing his name at the KC Stadium either... Unless you was a bit sick in the head...

Which I don't believe you are .

Hopefully it doesn't happen..
 
scarborough tiger said:
Thing is Tommy, if something like this happened to your daughter..... You would not get over it.... And you would not be singing his name at the KC Stadium either... Unless you was a bit sick in the head...

Which I don't believe you are .

Hopefully it doesn't happen..
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Perhaps I would see it differently, as I said in a previous post, I shape my opinions on my own experiences, so I guess that would change things and you're right, I'd be ****ing livid. However, as that hasn't happened to me, I stand by my statements.
 
I think there is a large difference between allowing someone to move on from a crime committed as a child compared to committed once a full blown man.
 
You statements are a classic example of all thats wrong with this country. Down to people like you we have a generation of people who will not accept responsibility for their own actions and blame everything and everyone else for what they do. No I won't let rapists/child murderers etc move on with their lives, No I won't accept that Myobo only made a mistake due to his circumstances and age at the time of the crime, No I refuse to let people like you tell me I'm wrong for not wanting a rapist to play in a City shirt.
 
I don´t think anybody is justifying what Mboyo did it was clearly unacceptable regardless of age or his background. That though should not mean that we should not sign him. He made the biggest mistake of his life at 16 possibly even younger. 16 year olds make mistakes admittedly not usually as big as this. It is now 10 years later and as far as I know he has led a clean and blameless life since. People talk about role models. Isn´t somebody who made such a big mistake but took his punishment and turned his life around a good role model for all the young people of Hull who maybe dabbling in drugs or crime or hanging around in gangs? Doesn´t it say to those people with a self discipline you can do it too? We expect our players to be role models but how can somebody who came through the ranks of Man U and the privilidges that go with it talk with feeling or be able to understand what our young people are going through? Somebody who has been there can. It is easy to give up on young people and throw them aside for one mistake. Shortly we will lose Nelson Mandela another fine example once a terrorist but somebody who in later life forgave those who had perscuted him and his race and as a result South Africa became a better place we should not forget what he taughts us. Closer to home our Queen was able to set us a good example and shake the hands of a man who had the blood or her uncle on his. Politicians of all parties talk about a just and tolerant society juding by some of the comments on here they have a hell of a job on their hands if people cannot forgive and allow people who have strayed at such a young age a second chance.
 
Haven't read every single posting on this thread as I think it would depress me to read some of the comments. I'm sorry but I am in general and overall agreement with the base point Tommytiger made at the start of the thread.
At some point we do have to start having criminals coming back into society - unless we go down the death penalty route (which some on here might find a good idea), and the issue is where do we cross the line. Pop stars, TV stars and sports stars are not like normal members of society as their job is obviously much different to the rest of us - and any crime they do is magnified in how people react to it by the press coverage. One club gave Mboyo a second change (whether that is termed as bleeding heart liberals gone too far by some) and some club down south gave Luke McCormick (killed 2 young boys while drunk driving) a second chance. The question I might raise is which of those footballers committed the worst crime - which is not to say that Mboyo is not a character who I particularly like but if we going to have a moral stance on signings, then should it not be something which is applied at all clubs and is the new policy "one crime and you lose any chance of playing professional football again"
 
SuitedandBooted said:
You statements are a classic example of all thats wrong with this country. Down to people like you we have a generation of people who will not accept responsibility for their own actions and blame everything and everyone else for what they do. No I won't let rapists/child murderers etc move on with their lives, No I won't accept that Myobo only made a mistake due to his circumstances and age at the time of the crime, No I refuse to let people like you create tell me I'm wrong for not wanting a rapist to play in a City shirt.
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No, down to people like me we have The Internet, The Hubble Space Telescope and probably most importantly of all, those little chocolate covered peanuts you get from the petrol station.

Again, you've been blinded by your own idiocy. People can't move on if they don't accept the mistakes they've made, otherwise they'd just be living in denial their whole lives (like Michael Jackson). I'm saying that people who can accept that what they've done is wrong are the people who are best suited to starting over. It's a bit of an over-exaggeration that everybody under 25 thinks they are care free and outside of their of responsibility. There are 10 year old kids out there who know that if they do something, they're responsible for the consequences.

You need to understand the whole picture, instead of being so black and white over everything. Instead of saying yes or no, question why you are making the choice. If you see something on the news, don't just take it as fact, ask the question of why it happened? Analyse what you are told and form it into your own opinion, instead of being told something is the way it is because that's that. You see all the riots that are happening across the world, in Brazil, Egypt, the UK; do you ever wonder why they're happening and try and satisfy your curiosity, or do you just see them and say "That's bad", like a red top reading luddite? If you don't ask the questions, you'll never learn anything and your stance on society will become outdated and pointless.
 
mostynthecat said:
Haven't read every single posting on this thread as I think it would depress me to read some of the comments. I'm sorry but I am in general and overall agreement with the base point Tommytiger made at the start of the thread.
At some point we do have to start having criminals coming back into society - unless we go down the death penalty route (which some on here might find a good idea), and the issue is where do we cross the line. Pop stars, TV stars and sports stars are not like normal members of society as their job is obviously much different to the rest of us - and any crime they do is magnified in how people react to it by the press coverage. One club gave Mboyo a second change (whether that is termed as bleeding heart liberals gone too far by some) and some club down south gave Luke McCormick (killed 2 young boys while drunk driving) a second chance. The question I might raise is which of those footballers committed the worst crime - which is not to say that Mboyo is not a character who I particularly like but if we going to have a moral stance on signings, then should it not be something which is applied at all clubs and is the new policy "one crime and you lose any chance of playing professional football again"
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One was an accident, which although had a far worse outcome with the deaths, was not intentional, and one was a deliberate act
 
Very much agree with Mr Suit / Booted.

Mboyo may be sorry, he may be a good guy now. I don't give a ****.

Rape
Women beating
Beating of old people

Some things won't be forgiven by some of us.

Would not want him here for free.

Can just imagine every game , the abuse thrown at the club from rival fans.

Ffs gang rape.... ****ing terrible.

My last comment on the subject anyway.

I'm off out for a crab sandwich on sea front.

It won't happen .

I don't want the Yorkshire ripper in Goal either no matter if he is better then Gordon Banks.
 
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