The Epsom Derby

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Bostonbob said:
Watch that race again chaps and pay attention to Mars.

Best horse in the race.
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That would be the small horse who should have been able to handle the undulations of Epsom but was out the back in a slowly run race and finished like a train passing beaten horses. He was as inexperienced as the winner so there is still time for improvement. Given who trains the “Best horse” it does not seem very likely that it will re-oppose the winner but may go to the Grand Prix De Paris and is a very likely candidate for a four year old career.
 
King Shergar said:
I think you'll find the scores were 2-2 between NA and HTN, over distances more suitable to HTN. There have been 4 classics this year, and NA has sired the winners of 2 of them. So your superior family comment is pretty daft :biggrin:
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Touching the way you stand up for NA...and indeed his offspring...even in the face of indisputable facts.

Bad luck today.:emoticon-0106-cryin
 
Dexter said:
Touching the way you stand up for NA...and indeed his offspring...even in the face of indisputable facts.

Bad luck today.:emoticon-0106-cryin
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What indesputable facts? Your just picking and choosing the facts to suit your argument. New Approach was a better horse, and will sire alot more G1 winners than Duke of Marmalade and HTN combined:biggrin:
 
New Approach was a champion at 2, and a champion at 3. He won G1s ranging from 7-12 furlongs, on all different types of going. HTN only won up to a mile, and he was only effective when firm was in the going description :biggrin:
 
I don't think it was such a bad ride tbh. He got checked twice and had to stop his momentum when starting to go for the eventual winners. The second was a gnats arse away from him at that point and Mars was closing as well if not better when he did get the space to race.

I'll be on NTO no matter the competition.
 
Bostonbob said:
I don't think it was such a bad ride tbh. He got checked twice and had to stop his momentum when starting to go for the eventual winners. The second was a gnats arse away from him at that point and Mars was closing as well if not better when he did get the space to race.

I'll be on NTO no matter the competition.
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Have just re-watched the race this morning and completely agree
 
King Shergar said:
Lol, I suggest you re watch the race if your reasoning for his defeat was that he didnt stay. He didnt settle simple as that. It was obvious he couldn't win the race after about 3 furlongs with the way he was pulling, nothing to do with wether he stayed or not :biggrin:
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He ran a very similar race to Tudor Minstrel in 1947, pulling, fighting & refusing to settle, heading the field & fading. Tudor Minstrel was put back to a mile & was the highest rated miler prior to Frankel. Dawn Approach didn't stay, won't stay & shouldn't have been in the fiels.
Great run by Libertarian though!
 
I agree with the thought that DA should not have been in the race. Had he stuck to shorter distance, as did Frankel, who knows he may have gone undefeated. I wonder what would have happened had Frankel run in the Derby.

I'm not forgetting that Bolger was always adamant that DA would not stay 12f and he seemed pretty pissed off when he declared that he would not be seen over 12f again. Makes me wonder why he did run.

NA was a remarkable racehorse, who won the Derby, despite his antics. Already he has sired 3 group winners with his first crop at Royal Ascot, the 2000Gns, Oaks and in another 20 yards would have sired the Derby winner.

As regards DA, I can't knock a horse that has clearly been trained for shorter distances. The jockey did well to stay on.
 
Dexter said:
And indeed how good HTN was who easily beat NA twice..the second time was a rout...great miler he was.

Todays winner was a half brother to DOM,who also easily brushed aside NA...superior family it would seem after the blow out of DA today.
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HTN easily beat New Approach twice? It was a nose in the Guineas Dex and New Approach was back up in another stride. Henry was a Group 1 miler, thats why he beat New Approach at a mile. And the time the Duke beat New Approach it was his first run back after an injury, New Approach was a better horse than both and will be a better sire.
 
The Master of Glesga said:
HTN easily beat New Approach twice? It was a nose in the Guineas Dex and New Approach was back up in another stride. Henry was a Group 1 miler, thats why he beat New Approach at a mile. And the time the Duke beat New Approach it was his first run back after an injury, New Approach was a better horse than both and will be a better sire.
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Very accurate summary. Brigadier Gerard beat mill Reef over a mile (by 3l I believe). HTN just about held on against NA in the Gns and would have had no chance against NA over 10 or 12f. It was a silly decision to run NA over an inadequate distance on very fast ground in the Irish Gns. Unfortunately it does give NA knockers the opportunity to belittle his remarkable achievements.
 
Surely a man of Jim Bolger's brilliance would have known that Dawn Approach and the Derby was a disaster waiting to happen. Ridiculous decision in all fairness and I actually felt sorry for the horse, He wasn't bred to win a Derby and so proved... Even with a pacemaker in the race I doubt he'd have stayed. The 3 horses on paper who were all certain to get the trip filled the first 3 places

I agree on Mars, Checked twice at crucial times when starting to motor, No fault of Richard Hughes.
 
Ron said:
Very accurate summary. Brigadier Gerard beat mill Reef over a mile (by 3l I believe). HTN just about held on against NA in the Gns and would have had no chance against NA over 10 or 12f. It was a silly decision to run NA over an inadequate distance on very fast ground in the Irish Gns. Unfortunately it does give NA knockers the opportunity to belittle his remarkable achievements.
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I'd have fancied NA to beat Sea the Stars over 10 and 12f. And I'd have fancied Frankel to beat them both over any distance...
 
Ron said:
I agree with the thought that DA should not have been in the race. Had he stuck to shorter distance, as did Frankel, who knows he may have gone undefeated. I wonder what would have happened had Frankel run in the Derby.

I'm not forgetting that Bolger was always adamant that DA would not stay 12f and he seemed pretty pissed off when he declared that he would not be seen over 12f again. Makes me wonder why he did run.

NA was a remarkable racehorse, who won the Derby, despite his antics. Already he has sired 3 group winners with his first crop at Royal Ascot, the 2000Gns, Oaks and in another 20 yards would have sired the Derby winner.

As regards DA, I can't knock a horse that has clearly been trained for shorter distances. The jockey did well to stay on.
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Can't help thinking this was a wild throw of the dice by the Shiekh in order to try and claw back some positive press. How Bolger must be wishing he could have gone to Royal Ascot instead.... He'll smash everything if he goes to goodwood.
 
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