According to someone "in the know", Forren just hasn't been able to get into the team. In all fairness, our CBs have improved since January and that could even be down to having to fight for their places.
Poor Jos
- Thread starter Le Tissier's Laces
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The main goal of any attacker is to score or set up goals. Welbeck does neither. Stop talking rubbish.
Well (assuming we're talking Hooveld's own goals) that's just not true. I'm not gonna defend Fox too much but he had nothing to do with Hooiveld's own goals against Arsenal or Fulham.
The thing is, you can excuse him for that goal, you can (justifiably) argue his own goal against Newcastle was Fox's fault, you can possibly look at his other own goals and come up with reasons why they were unlucky too, maybe you can explain why he was unlucky to give away the 2 or 3 penalties he gave away this season and of course you can say he was unlucky to slip when he lost John Terry for Chelsea's goal when we beat them. For me though when a player keeps "being unlucky" there comes a point where you have to accept one person can't be that unlucky so there must be something about his game that simply isn't good enough.
Sure, Jos had a shaky start to the season (as did others) - since he has come back in from the wilderness, I think his performances have been generally very good. Toward the end of the season, we haven`t been conceding, but conversely not scoring either. Poch seems to prefer him to Jose, Maya, Forren, Stephens, so that`s fine by me.
Can you afford to give someone a chance if you don't rate them? Four million isn't a fortune in the scheme of things and sometimes you have to sweep a mistake under the carpet and move on. Forren is our 4th choice CB and never made it on to the pitch. I would have more confidence of him making it if he was only eighteen. I'd like him to turn out to be fantastic, but the signs aren't good.
Pre-season will be key. Gives him the chance to really get game time, get properly fit, and gives him a chance to impress.
Well obviously he's been better recently but he started the season so badly that he was always going to improve and when I've seen him he still makes odd decisions - particularly when he's facing his own goal - that don't always lead to trouble but could, and he does have a tendency to dangle a leg in the flightpath of shots, which has led to several deflected goals or own goals. The pressing game we play now means we're less open and teams get less time to play on the floor, which is where he's weakest and most likely to make mistakes so I'm not surprised he's improved.
Yes he's been playing but it's not like he's keeping world class defenders out of the side. Fonte and Yoshida are decent defenders at this level but not much more than that, Stephens is a kid and nobody knows what's going on with Forren. It also wouldn't surprise me if part of the reason he's playing is that Poch wants at least one centre back who can dominate in the air. Plenty of managers play a centre back pairing that consists of a big lump and a ball player (Ferdinand/Vidic, Terry/Carvalho, Agger/Skrtel etc) and Jos is our only big lump. By all accounts we're after defenders this summer so as I said before I'll be disappointed if he's still first choice next year.
Most were underwhelmed when he arrived...then he turned in some great performances and contributed to our success. An important character in our side. He may not be a good enough CB for our ambition, but he has stepped up at the end of this season. He may even have scored if we played games on Tuesdays
Most were underwhelmed when he arrived...then he turned in some great performances and contributed to our success. An important character in our side. He may not be a good enough CB for our ambition, but he has stepped up at the end of this season. He may even have scored if we played games on Tuesdays
Yes but in which net!
The bottom line for me is that I really like Jose and Jos, they've been great in our journey, yet even though at times they've stepped up to the plate and performed really well at times, I just don't see them as excellent premier league CBs. Maya is difficult to judge as at times he looks good and at times he looks like a cat on a hot tin roof. His distribution isn't great and this is key to how we play. Gotten hasn't played so I can't comment.
The above tells me we need one good quality CB now, maybe the second next year, depending on how good Forren is.
The above tells me we need one good quality CB now, maybe the second next year, depending on how good Forren is.
The bottom line for me is that I really like Jose and Jos, they've been great in our journey, yet even though at times they've stepped up to the plate and performed really well at times, I just don't see them as excellent premier league CBs. Maya is difficult to judge as at times he looks good and at times he looks like a cat on a hot tin roof. His distribution isn't great and this is key to how we play. Gotten hasn't played so I can't comment.
The above tells me we need one good quality CB now, maybe the second next year, depending on how good Forren is.
The above tells me we need one good quality CB now, maybe the second next year, depending on how good Forren is.
Most were underwhelmed when he arrived...then he turned in some great performances and contributed to our success. An important character in our side. He may not be a good enough CB for our ambition, but he has stepped up at the end of this season. He may even have scored if we played games on Tuesdays
I think 'character' is the key word here. Jos seems to have bags of it, but it will only take you so far
Agreed, Jos has definitely shown character but I think he lacks a bit of quality. I also agree Yoshida's distribution isn't great but that can be worked on and I think he'd pair well with a better CB because he's less likely to make a silly mistake than Jos or Jose. Given our current status I think I'd be happy with Yoshida as third choice CB (and possibly second choice RB) and either Jos or Jose as 4th choice next season.
What do you suggest he does- ignore them and allow a striker a clear shot on goal? He doesn't know what the keeper is doing and has to try and block a shot if he can. I think he has been unfortunate in causing many of those deflections.
On the issue of Forren, I think the lack of match practice alongside any of our defenders I expect was a large factor as to why he's not played. When we really need to pick up points, I don't think starting a completely new partnership is a good idea. Get him in at pre-season with different partnerships and see which work best.
I think this season a lot of fans have underestimated the need for foreign players to settle into the team, their new surroundings and team-mates, and expected an immediate impact. Especially now we're in the Premiership, the number of foreign signings may increase. The three players who have suffered from this worst I think are Forren, Ramirez and Mayuka. I think next season, with a full pre-season these players will have more of an impact.
For me, Yoshida and Fonte are our best pairing at the moment. I love how Yoshida reads the game, and I think both Jos and Fonte's games improved when playing alongside him. I do get worried by Hooiveld, slow and always seems prone to an error, like the slip against Stoke that let Walters in, luckily Morgan got back to cover that time.
I think this season a lot of fans have underestimated the need for foreign players to settle into the team, their new surroundings and team-mates, and expected an immediate impact. Especially now we're in the Premiership, the number of foreign signings may increase. The three players who have suffered from this worst I think are Forren, Ramirez and Mayuka. I think next season, with a full pre-season these players will have more of an impact.
For me, Yoshida and Fonte are our best pairing at the moment. I love how Yoshida reads the game, and I think both Jos and Fonte's games improved when playing alongside him. I do get worried by Hooiveld, slow and always seems prone to an error, like the slip against Stoke that let Walters in, luckily Morgan got back to cover that time.
Generally no but it depends on the situation. If you're in the wrong position or having to stretch as far as you possibly can to get something in the way of the ball then you might be better off leaving it because you're more likely to deflect the shot rather than block it. Obviously there's an element of bad luck but it happens to him more than it seems to happen to our other defenders which suggests to me there is an underlying cause. What that is I'm not sure. Perhaps his initial positioning is off (either where he is on the pitch or his body shape) or perhaps his reflexes aren't quick enough.
I'd compare it to cricket. Getting caught behind down the leg side is generally seen as an unlucky way to get out, but if it happens to you several times over the course of a season then the chances are you're doing something wrong.