Gaston and the alternatives

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I said before it's nothing to do with the price tag. Why should it be? It's to do with is he a better option than others without even looking at price? Why should we give a player a starting place ahead of someone who is playing much better?

People pick out 2 pretty under par team performances where he was the stand out player. co-incidence? He played well in the second half against Villa but then he was still not as good as Lambert, Clyne, Puncheon who were almost worldy form in that game.

Several times he has replaced Lallana or been replaced by Lallana (thinking yesterday and the Man U away game) and it is clear to see that Lallana is twice the player. Davis since the West Brom period where he was poor has maintained superior form.

So nothing to do with price tag, to do with on merit he is way down the pecking order.

Then people talk about giving Rodriguez time. Difference being Rodriguez was called by many over priced for how good he was when we bought him yet has gradually improved to the point where you would think he is now the £12m player. Ramirez was supposedly 'too good for Saints' and has not as yet shown that he is actually good enough for Saints (first 11) yet he is afforded the luxury because 'he will be a talent'.

I hope he is a talent but surely we should be playing form players first. Or are the same people who complain about England picking off form players the ones that are defending Saints playing the off form players.

Lets hope he does come good because he will be great for us if so, but lets drop this garbage defending of him when it is clear that at present Davis and Lallana are giving us much more on the field.
 
This is becoming a spectacularly irritating argument. The fact some of you expect a player who has just turned 22, come from a completely different league, lifestyle, culture and want him to be playing like Cantona within 3/4 of a season of arriving belies a remarkable lack of foresight. The transfer fee is a ridiculous argument - as I stated on the match thread, Gaston didn't decide the fee, that was the amount that WE, with reference to management team, scouting and owner, thought WE should pay to acquire him. If you honestly don't think he's worth it, then can I suggest you write a strongly worded email to [email protected] or something, rather than strangely barracking Gaston for his fee.

Talented footballer has ego? Umm....well that's a non-starter too. Are you aware of Matthew Le Tissier? Thierry Henry? Eric Cantona? All the best sportsmen in history have egos - it's called confidence in your ability. Mohammed Ali? Ayrton Senna? As Fran rightly says, Gaston seems widely liked and if anything externally a little bit shy.

As has been raised also countless times, it takes time to adapt. Drogba took time. Bergkamp took time. Henry took time. And ALL of those were older and more experienced then when Gaston made the transition. You're judging him and casting him aside after 3/4 of a season. Wow. Thank goodness you don't manage our team.

Please can we just put this ridiculous argument to bed. It may be that he ends up not fulfilling his OBVIOUS talent ultimately, or perhaps that he'll be better suited in the tactics and environment of another team. However you absolutely should not and cannot make any kind of decision on that until he's had at least a proper pre-season and year in a rapidly developing team. It's absurd and shows a deep misunderstanding of any number of things to do otherwise.
 
I agree give him time, just not at the expense of the team or other players that are deserving of the starting places.
 
ImpsSaint said:
Your post was a reasoned argument until this sentence. It annoys me when people assume someone else's view and say its "garbage". If you find other posts I for one, who really rated Ramirez said I would have picked Davis ahead of Ramirez for the Liverpool game. I have defended him stoutly because people have said he is "crap" or " he should be sold". That is singling him out.

He has played well in several games and even in a game such as the Reading game where he was not great, he still made good contributions. Why can't people stop half reading people's view and assuming their opinion.

My defending him is not garbage. He is a quality player who has played well and has played poorly this year. If you don't think he has played well at all, then we just differ. As for him performing only when others haven't, I could argue that that is a sign if a quality player.
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I haven't seen anyone say he should be starting every game. Just a few people saying we should give up and transfer him and everyone else pointing out that's jumping the gun.

He's only playing for Lallana at present because Lallana is dinged up. The PT issue upfront right now is that Lambert and Rodriguez are playing at the same time. They appear to be swapping roles or getting license to roam so that one of them is central and the other is more of a outside striker in support. Davis is playing the attacking central midfield role.

That leaves only one spot open for Lallana or Puncheon. One starts. That leaves us with one winger-type and one more central type (but both flexible to some degree) to come off the bench or use as depth in case of injury in case any one of five players goes down. There is plenty of playing time for everyone so they can all stay sharp but not get too worn out.

Ramirez has played two out of the last six halves. We won all three games pretty handily. For the life of me, I can't see how there is a problem here.
 
- Doing The Lambert Walk said:
I think there's a few more people you could say have an "ego" before you get to Gaston.

No surprise that the comments are coming from who they are, you can change a name but not a persona. (RLGB)

Lallana is just as guilty for trying tricks and flicks when they are not needed. He was good when he came on yesterday.

His fancy flick to put aq Saints player into the box yesterday was quality mind...

I still think a few people are writing him off waaaayyy too early.
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My name changed months ago, te day Adkins was sacked in fact.
 
I honestly think the guy is still adapting. He shows glimpses of resl talent but needs to adjust to the pace and tenacity of the premier league. Some players take longer than others but I wouldnt be surprised if we see him prove his worth next season. Lets not forget hes still pretty young too.

Oh and 1st post, ill try and make em more interesting in the future when im not concentrating on not droppin my phone in the bath!!
 
fatletiss said:
Your post was a reasoned argument until this sentence. It annoys me when people assume someone else's view and say its "garbage". If you find other posts I for one, who really rated Ramirez said I would have picked Davis ahead of Ramirez for the Liverpool game. I have defended him stoutly because people have said he is "crap" or " he should be sold". That is singling him out.
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It is garbage because virtually no-one is saying 'get rid' Most (like me) are quite simply saying that at the moment his form only warrants being a squad player and not first 11. Thats our opinion.

And yes if someone offers what we paid and some of us say we would accept it then what is people's problem with that. Its our opinion and of equal merit to others who are prepared to give him more time. We're prepared to give him more time but if an offer comes up in the summer what's the problem in us saying we would accept it?

The problem is the Gaston at all costs fan club who reads posts then simply put a dividing line in the keep/Get rid camp. That is the garbage. I'm pretty open minded from the keep to the give time through to the sell him point of view. Definitely not going to say that he should be given a start every week ahead of others at the mo.

Lallana is a better player though and also playing better :) <------My opinion
 
You can't compare Rodriguez and Ramirez in terms of adapting. Rodriguez had to adapt from living in the north of England to living in the south of England and from playing in the Championship to the Premier League and has only shown top form in the last few games. Ramirez has to adapt to living in a new country, speaking a new language and from playing in Serie A to playing in the Premier League. He has to make much bigger changes in terms of lifestyle and playing style so of course it will take him longer.

I also don't think Lallana has been at his best this season and it wouldn't shock me if he dropped out of the first eleven next year.
 
Lallana hasn't been himself, but said in a recent interview that he had been suffering from injuries, including concussion. It can sometimes take you a few games to get back to your peak again even after you have physically recovered.
 
My only gripes with Gaston is when he tries the flicks in our half, similar to how Jack Cork would dribble at people from the 18 yard line last season!

However, for me, he is one of our most 'intelligent' players on the pitch, and on numerous occasions he seems to be one step ahead of our other players!

On top of this, Lallana is guilty of giving the ball away just as much, if not more. I think we need to get another attacking option who will play well with Gaston, someone who can help him adapt his game, as the tempo in the premier league is much quicker than in Italy, in the most part. I also think he would do well with Guly, but we simply can't afford both of them in the team at the moment. He is still adapting and needs time to settle, integrate and learn the language fully. I am certain he will be crucial next season in behind Jay and Rickie.

He also has a very high work ethic, he tracks well, and presses well, but maybe doesn't have the fitness of the rest of the sqaud, some of our lads seem to be constantly running, and would be harsh to say he has a big ego, as from what i have seen this season, he does his fair share whenever he has played. There is also the fact that when we are not playing our best football, he appears to me as our best performer, thus reinforcing his obvious quality.
 
Puck said:
You can't compare Rodriguez and Ramirez in terms of adapting. Rodriguez had to adapt from living in the north of England to living in the south of England and from playing in the Championship to the Premier League and has only shown top form in the last few games. Ramirez has to adapt to living in a new country, speaking a new language and from playing in Serie A to playing in the Premier League. He has to make much bigger changes in terms of lifestyle and playing style so of course it will take him longer.

I also don't think Lallana has been at his best this season and it wouldn't shock me if he dropped out of the first eleven next year.
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And you are entitled to your opinion. After Godders spitting his false teeth out about anyone who dare say negatives about the chosen one then I am not carrying on with any reasoned debate over who is playing better or not. I think Lallana will be in the first 11 next year. Thats my opinion. I'm not adding ANY supporting evidence as it will be swarmed on by the 'Gaston must play' lot.

I'm actually feeling 5% sympathy for GMI at the moment!!!
 
Oh he's not been terrible and I'm not suggesting he should be sold or anything but he plays as one of the 3 behind Lambert, and mainly in the wider positions. Rodriguez currently has that left-hand slot sewn up and if we pull off a big signing in the summer (and particularly if Ramirez clicks) I could see a situation where those 3 are: Rodriguez; S Davis/Ramirez; A.N. Other

Which would leave us with quite the strong bench!
 
Puck said:
Oh he's not been terrible and I'm not suggesting he should be sold or anything but he plays as one of the 3 behind Lambert, and mainly in the wider positions. Rodriguez currently has that left-hand slot sewn up and if we pull off a big signing in the summer (and particularly if Ramirez clicks) I could see a situation where those 3 are: Rodriguez; S Davis/Ramirez; A.N. Other

Which would leave us with quite the strong bench!
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So we're not that far apart. I just think Lallana has had better moments (between injuries) than Ramirez has (between injuries) especially noticeable when he comes on for or is brought off for Ramirez. I also think that especially since Rodriguez is now a definite starter and there is now a swapping of the No10 role between Ricki and Jay that there is no room for Ramirez there and Davis being slightly deeper helps that. Reasoning enough for people? I bet not.
 
ImpsSaint said:
So we're not that far apart. I just think Lallana has had better moments (between injuries) than Ramirez has (between injuries) especially noticeable when he comes on for or is brought off for Ramirez. I also think that especially since Rodriguez is now a definite starter and there is now a swapping of the No10 role between Ricki and Jay that there is no room for Ramirez there and Davis being slightly deeper helps that. Reasoning enough for people? I bet not.
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Not far at all really. I think there's more to come from Ramirez, possibly a lot more, but I have to admit I'd probably start Rodriguez, Davis and Lallana against West Ham for example. Davis is playing very well and a better option to deal with the physicality of West Ham and Lallana is a better wide player than Ramirez.

It's nice to be arguing over who doesn't play rather than trying to think who could come in and sort out problems.
 
ImpsSaint said:
So we're not that far apart. I just think Lallana has had better moments (between injuries) than Ramirez has (between injuries) especially noticeable when he comes on for or is brought off for Ramirez. I also think that especially since Rodriguez is now a definite starter and there is now a swapping of the No10 role between Ricki and Jay that there is no room for Ramirez there and Davis being slightly deeper helps that. Reasoning enough for people? I bet not.
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We get your point, but why put the aggressive rhetorical question at the end. It's as if you want confrontational disagreement which contradicts everything you say. If you want people to respect your opinion, you've got to atleast try to understand theirs and not discount it with your own.

Edit: It's not only you doing it, just seems to be the only thing that happens on this forum these days!
 
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