So...what's the solution then?

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C

CanaryWorf

Member
Jan 24, 2011
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I understand that there's a fair amount of criticism building up now because of the performances from our beloved Canaries this season.

So without prejudice or bias I'm now asking a straight question:

With our current squad - what to do that would improve our performances? Because the call for "two up front" in recent weeks doesn't seem to have provided a magic bullet.
 
Give the players more freedom. They seem so regimented in their role that they just run in straight lines. We never see the wingers swapping flanks to keep the full backs guessing or bursting runs into the box from the midfield as they're job is to make sure the 2 banks of 4 are perfect. We can play what we want but if each player only has a little zone to run in and is scared to drag a defender out of position with a creative run then we won't be opening many teams up from anything but set pieces.
 
I agree with Billy, but for the next game I'd play 4-2-3-1:
--------------Bunn--------------
Whittaker-Turner-Bassong-Garrido
---------Fox---------Johnson----
Snodgrass---Hoolahan----Kamara
-------------Holt---------------

We've argued about Fox elsewhere, but Howson has been dreadful, Tettey may not be fit, and Surman doesn't fit the role. I'd like to think the inclusion of Fox would help us keep possession and build, something we struggled with today. I don't know how bad Pilks' injury is, but I'd still be tempted to try Kamara out wide, but with instructions to get forward and support Holt whenever we've got the ball. He's full of running, so hopefully he can do this, even before he went off today he was still tracking players back and making tackles quite far back. When Kamara is pushing forward, Johnson should be able to help Garrido out in the event of a counter.

I know it's not 4-4-2, and it comes across as defensive, but it is an away game, from which I'd be happy with a point, but I still think it offers enough going forward. Whittaker played so well with Snodgrass pre-Christmas, and whilst Martin hasn't done anything wrong per se, I think Whittaker is just the better player. Going forward we've still got 2 strikers on the pitch, but Johnson should be able to break up play, and Fox seemed to do ok at it last season, so I'd like to see him get another chance.

This season we seem to have run out of ideas, and whilst I don't like saying it, no matter how ugly it is I don't care how we get across the line. I realise as a somewhat exiled supporter this is easier for me to say, I'm not sat through it each week! In the summer we can rebuild (again). I'd like to see us really splash out on a quality DM, hopefully good enough that we can dispense with the need to play 2 each game, offering more flexibility of formation, hopefully more attacking threat, and a way to include the likes of Surman. That's my key buy, but we obviously need a LB (or 2), competition for LW, a centre back as good as Bassong/Turner would be nice, and the a striker too. Perhaps competition for Hoolahan would be nice, but I'm hoping Butterfield will offer this.
 
I don't think there is an answer now except go on doing the same thing and hope it scrapes together enough points in the last nine games to keep us up. The players look scared of their own shadows so I doubt if letting them off the leash would be a good idea.

Long-term, if we survive, a complete change of attitude and some additions to the squad. Not sure how we achieve the first of these, though.
 
vietnamcanary said:
I don't think there is an answer now except go on doing the same thing and hope it scrapes together enough points in the last nine games to keep us up. The players look scared of their own shadows so I doubt if letting them off the leash would be a good idea.

Long-term, if we survive, a complete change of attitude and some additions to the squad. Not sure how we achieve the first of these, though.
Click to expand...

the more i read this sort of stuff the less i believe it. it just seems like youve taken hold of a reality (hughtons defensive-draw will do attitude) and conjectured the mental state of all our players from that. Seems more and more like factious rumour every time you bring it up.
 
I'd personally play Fox for the remaining 10 games, I'd go back to the 5 in midfield because all Becchio does is stand still.

I'd get rid of Bennet because he's rubbish. I'd focus on getting the possession figures up in preparation for next season.

Midfield would be Snodgrass, Howson, Hoolahan, Fox, and Kamara for the easier home games and swap Howson around for Johnson in the away games.

I'd stop the nonsense of Hoolahan on the wing.

I'd close down further up the pitch

The passing ethic of the team suffers from such a severe lack of content.



See the thing I don't understand about Hughtons choice of tactics, we are set up to defend in numbers, yet there is no counter attack system in place. You cannot defend like that and play long ball (deep crosses) because you need numbers up front to pick up the crap slung in the box. Its why the ball keeps coming back and why we don't create anything. We played a long ball system with 5 in midfield, where on earth is the sense in that?

He has no pace in the team to play a counter attack, does no-one find it a bit strange that he took the direction he has?

So we have defending on mass, no counter attack in place, and one person fighting for long crosses and balls out with no-one to pass to because the midfield aren't allowed to join in.

Is it really any surprise the games are as they have been with this quite frankly stupid tactic, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

It strikes me that tactically he does the opposite of what works.

Packed midfield -he plays long ball
One up front - long ball
Packed Defence - no counterattack or pace
Packed midfield - yet no movement from midfield
Packed midfield - yet we get the ball wide at the earliest opportunity

The more I think about it the more I think Hughton has very little ability to change or adapt to a given situation.
 
Sensible post carrabuh


carrabuh said:
I'd personally play Fox for the remaining 10 games, I'd go back to the 5 in midfield because all Becchio does is stand still. - Agreed

I'd get rid of Bennet because he's rubbish. I'd focus on getting the possession figures up in preparation for next season. - Definitely agreed CH and his staff need to instill this during training - I lost count of the number of times passes didn't reach another city player yesterday!!!!

Midfield would be Snodgrass, Howson, Hoolahan, Fox, and Kamara for the easier home games and swap Howson around for Johnson in the away games. - Agreed

I'd stop the nonsense of Hoolahan on the wing. - Agreed I think teams have become more wary of him and he tends to be marked more closely

I'd close down further up the pitch - Definitely agreed

The passing ethic of the team suffers from such a severe lack of content. - Definitely agreed



See the thing I don't understand about Hughtons choice of tactics, we are set up to defend in numbers, yet there is no counter attack system in place. You cannot defend like that and play long ball (deep crosses) because you need numbers up front to pick up the crap slung in the box. Its why the ball keeps coming back and why we don't create anything. We played a long ball system with 5 in midfield, where on earth is the sense in that?

He has no pace in the team to play a counter attack, does no-one find it a bit strange that he took the direction he has? - Definitely agreed[/COLOR What has happened to the tactics he used in the games up to Xmas??? I looked forward to taking my seat at CR and cheering the team on. I'll be there for the remaining home games apart from Reading, but if things don't improve next season, I ertainly won't be going to as many matches!!!

So we have defending on mass, no counter attack in place, and one person fighting for long crosses and balls out with no-one to pass to because the midfield aren't allowed to join in. - Definitely agreed

Is it really any surprise the games are as they have been with this quite frankly stupid tactic, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. - Definitely agreed

It strikes me that tactically he does the opposite of what works. - Agreed

Packed midfield -he plays long ball
One up front - long ball
Packed Defence - no counterattack or pace
Packed midfield - yet no movement from midfield
Packed midfield - yet we get the ball wide at the earliest opportunity

The more I think about it the more I think Hughton has very little ability to change or adapt to a given situation.
Click to expand...

It's beginning to look as though 'he has no desire to change it either' - I hear more fans each week saying that they are thinking long and hard about whether they'll be coming to games next season if our style of play doesn't change.
 
[video=youtube_share;ctWS52IA_JY]http://youtu.be/ctWS52IA_JY[/video]

Whenever I hear negative fans bashing the manager and the players and insisting they know better I always think of the above link.

Most of the time they are wrong, or dressing up an obvious solution with generic football puns and rhetoric.
 
Really astute long post, Carrabuh, virtually all of which seems perfectly logical to me. When you're not picking fights withh people, you really hit the nail on the head a lot of the time. :biggrin:

On the issue of the players' mental state, Battersea, of course I cannot KNOW their mental state. However, I think it's quite reasonable to conjecture about that state from the only evidence I have - their performance. And each week that becomes more hesitant, less confident, less spontaneous, and more laboured so it seems fair to me to assume that something is not happening in terms of motivating and inspiring them.
 
Next season things will be different, for the first time in my memory we will be a club with money to spend. We can buy the type of players that will make the Hughton model work.

The formation/gameplan being used is based around good defending and quick counter attacking play - the defenders are good enough (Hughton signings) but the attackers aren't.

We are finishing this season in order to build on the very strong foundation for next. Some posters seem so fixated with the short-term they lose sight of what's best for the club medium-term. A change to gung-ho Lambert play would see us plummet in to the relegation battle - lambert is doing well at the moment isn't he?

For any who doubt what I say here, bookmark this post and visit it again January 2014.
 
vietnamcanary said:
On the issue of the players' mental state, Battersea, of course I cannot KNOW their mental state. However, I think it's quite reasonable to conjecture about that state from the only evidence I have - their performance. And each week that becomes more hesitant, less confident, less spontaneous, and more laboured so it seems fair to me to assume that something is not happening in terms of motivating and inspiring them.
Click to expand...

It's largely because the system Hughton wants to employ is like a ball and chain, holding them back, preventing any spontaneity, flair, or creative play. The one exception is Wes, but because of the regimented 2 banks of 4, he invariably has to drop so far back - often to the halfway line to collect the ball, that even he, too, is nullified or at least minimised <doh>
 
CanaryWorf said:
I understand that there's a fair amount of criticism building up now because of the performances from our beloved Canaries this season.

So without prejudice or bias I'm now asking a straight question:

With our current squad - what to do that would improve our performances? Because the call for "two up front" in recent weeks doesn't seem to have provided a magic bullet.
Click to expand...

I'd stop sitting so deep and make the players press more we seem to like having zones. So long as the opposition don't cross a certain line we allow them to play football and don't hassle them enough.

Try to be patient with our football and start passing the ball around try to create space and gaps. We're very uniform and regimented when we attack pass the ball to wings, crossing, overlapping fullbacks you always know that Holts going to look to run in on the far post once the cross comes in it's very predictable, we need to stop being so direct and pick our passes it's like we're playing in auto pilot sometimes.
 
What's happened to the team that put 28 passes together to score against Sunderland???? In the last few games I've watched, it's unusual to be able to get 8 passes together before we give the ball away. Yes, the formation is too regimented and easily nullified by the opposition. Give the players more freedom I say!!!!
 
JRFan said:
What's happened to the team that put 28 passes together to score against Sunderland???? In the last few games I've watched, it's unusual to be able to get 8 passes together before we give the ball away. Yes, the formation is too regimented and easily nullified by the opposition. Give the players more freedom I say!!!!
Click to expand...

Good movement creates more goals than anything else as far as I'm concerned, makes passing easier , creates space, causes problems for the defence. Its the one of the things Lambert really did instill in the team, interchanging of positions.
 
Beefforhire-NCFC said:
[video=youtube_share;ctWS52IA_JY]http://youtu.be/ctWS52IA_JY[/video]

Whenever I hear negative fans bashing the manager and the players and insisting they know better I always think of the above link.

Most of the time they are wrong, or dressing up an obvious solution with generic football puns and rhetoric.
Click to expand...

So are you saying:

a) You're happy with the way were playing?

b) As fans/supporters we should just sit on our hands keep our mouths shut and accept the situation.

c) Why are you on a football discussion forum?
 
ilovedelia said:
So are you saying:

a) You're happy with the way were playing?

b) As fans/supporters we should just sit on our hands keep our mouths shut and accept the situation.

c) Why are you on a football discussion forum?
Click to expand...

It really is quite pointless discussing this stuff with Beef, he has absolutely no imagination or interest in his own opinion. I've never once read of him speaking about an element of the club he's unhappy with. He just doesn't care.
 
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