EPL vs the world

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Spursguru

Spursguru

Active Member
Sep 23, 2011
1,756
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Forest Row, East Grinstead
I havn't posted much on here lately, but I have been reading on and off - and i've noticed accross boards a number of differing opinions as to whether:

The Prem is stronger now than a few years ago
& whether other leagues are better

Arguements for and against seem to be based on viewing figures, sponsership, top players coming/leaving and European performance.

I just wanted to throw in my 2cents and see what people thought in a dedicated article, so please indulge me:


To my mind the viewing figures only relate to the popularity of the league. This is not an indication of the Leagues strength in terms of Squad quality - however obviously over time more viewers = more money

In terms of the gap from Top to Bottom - I believe the bottom clubs are closer to being "TOP 4" than ever before (RVP utd excluded). I believe this means the league is more competitive than it has been in the time i've been watching (95ish onwards). I deffinitely believe that Utd, Chelsea and City have some of the best squads in Europe, whilst 4th is up for grabs from Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool.
A few years ago all four top 4 teams were in with a shout of winning the champions league so you can certainly say that the league is weaker from that point of view. However, i've never really seen any teams look capable of winning the Europa leage as it has often been filled by the likes of Stoke, Bolton, Villa, West ham (besides us) wheras this year Spurs, Newcastle, Chelsea and untill last round Liverpool were all very possible contenders.

Added to that Swansea for next year who play fantastic football, ideal for Europe and Liverpool + one of SPurs/Arsenal and Chelsea again and I think the Europa league representation is stronger than ever.

So in all, whilst the league is not as strong at the top end, the middle end teams are making much of a fight for things.

Do you think this makes it stronger or weaker? have I missed out anything important?
 
I think the best 2 teams in Spain are better than our top 2. The top couple in Germany are probably on a par with our best. However, i think the lower and mid sections of the prem contain better teams than similarly placed teams in Spain and Germany.
This means the league is more competitive, not necessarily in that a lot of different teams win the title but in how often the lower teams beat or take points off the top teams. This adds to the "excitement".
So, overall i still think its the best league, but whether it has the absolute best teams is highly debatable.
 
IMO, the league is stronger than the rest of europe, and I'd also say that the league itself is stronger than it's been in previous years.

The reason i think this, is because very few top players leave our league for other countries. In general, the players that go abroad tend to be the dead wood or aging players of premier league clubs. Yes, there are the players who are deemed to be top quality who do leave to go abroad, but it's very few in comparison to those who head this way.

Also, those "top" players, tend to only go to a handful of teams, as they are the only ones who can afford them. In the premiership, there are clubs further down the league table who spend a lot of money compared to clubs in a similar position abroad. - Newcastle are an example of this.

you've only got to look at Germany. Over the last few seasons, Hambug, Shalke and M'gladbach have been CL contenders in that league, but now they are sitting 6th,9th and 10th respectively.- With Frankfurt coming out of nowhere.

I also believe that the league is stronger, as the league is tighter (forgetting united). Clubs like Swansea have come from nowhere and made a real challenge in the top 10. There is also no "dead cert top 4" like their used to be and many more teams are competing at the top of the table, as lower sides are picking up more points, this making the overall table tighter.

That must be some of the reasons why most players want to come to the premier league and why so many head this way, in comparison to those who leave?
 
We have a tendency to be mesmerised by players with good technique and a bit of skill whilst dismissing the virtues of those with experience, nous, a work ethic and loads of character. Which is why pundits drool over some player from Shakhtar Donetsk whilst continually overlooking a player like Michael Carrick. We have an abundance of both in the PL. The top five clubs have squads as strong as any in Europe. Our bottom half teams still have squads packed with 15-20 internationals- no other league can boast that.

The CL is essentially a cup competition. Favourites can have an off day and get knocked out- look at Barcelona's performances in the last 12 months. Teams playing regularly in the competition and getting to the Q-Fs and beyond can all win it if they hit form at the right time. The fact that Utd and Chelsea have consistently done well in recent years whilst having to juggle important PL games, as well as the F.A Cup, is proof of the strength of the PL. None of the other teams has such a taxing schedule as ours yet when was the last time Real Madrid or one of the Italians made their mark? Winning any meaningful title or trophy is often more about hard work and character than the ability to play champagne football at times. We know Barcelona can play the best football on any given day, but recent results are showing that they are far from invincible.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
We have a tendency to be mesmerised by players with good technique and a bit of skill whilst dismissing the virtues of those with experience, nous, a work ethic and loads of character. Which is why pundits drool over some player from Shakhtar Donetsk whilst continually overlooking a player like Michael Carrick. We have an abundance of both in the PL. The top five clubs have squads as strong as any in Europe. Our bottom half teams still have squads packed with 15-20 internationals- no other league can boast that.

The CL is essentially a cup competition. Favourites can have an off day and get knocked out- look at Barcelona's performances in the last 12 months. Teams playing regularly in the competition and getting to the Q-Fs and beyond can all win it if they hit form at the right time. The fact that Utd and Chelsea have consistently done well in recent years whilst having to juggle important PL games, as well as the F.A Cup, is proof of the strength of the PL. None of the other teams has such a taxing schedule as ours yet when was the last time Real Madrid or one of the Italians made their mark? Winning any meaningful title or trophy is often more about hard work and character than the ability to play champagne football at times. We know Barcelona can play the best football on any given day, but recent results are showing that they are far from invincible.
Click to expand...

Good point, other European countries FA's help their CL participants, easing their fixture schedules where possible (La Liga playing friday night ahead of a Tuesday CL game) Our own FA's stance is 'get on with it as it is'. This slight advantage may go someway to their better progress in recent years compared to ours.
 
In my opinion, the EPL is by far the best league in the world.

The strength of the clubs show that any team can beat anyone on their day. The fight for the top 7 or 8 placess is brilliant and all teams fighting for them places are a match for most clubs around the world.

Using us as an example, we qualified for the CL for the first time and was able to record a famous win at home against the reigning champions of the competition - Inter Milan - beating them fairly comfortably and then managed a remarkable win away at the San Siro against AC Milan. Baring in mind we're the 4th/ 5th best team in the country, to beat two of the biggest and best teams in the world just shows the strength that the Prem has to offer.

Players around the world always want to come over to England and challenge themselves. The strength shows that teams like Southampton are attractive to players like Gaston Ramirez, a player that was linked to many top European sides. QPR too, (albeit with money doing the talking) have attracted players like Remy who was also a player tracked by many "bigger" teams. You won't see these players joining the likes of Valladolid/ Osasuna/ Siena/ Cagliari/ Nuremberg/ Augsburg and so on...

While I think Spain has the two best teams in the world, our league is a far superior competition, the pace of the game is like no other. Finishing in places like 3rd/ 4th/ 5th/ 6th can be seen as a real achievement, despite the fact you get no trophy for it.
 
All I can go on is my personal opinion, which leagues I find the most entertaining to watch and for me it's
1. Premier League over top European leagues - Reasons - competitive but with several top clubs who have great players - race for CL spots far more interesting that the same race in other leagues - relegation battle is interesting + promotion spots and play offs (though obviously mostly a contributory factor for the Championship rather than the PL but still stands imo) it's interesting to see how newly promoted teams get on. Blackpool for example seemed to be neutrals favorite underdogs when they were promoted and a lot of people were sad to see them go down again, or the best example being Swansea, after a couple of seasons in the Premier League they have won the league cup and people actually care, nobody gives a buggers toss about promotion/relegation in other leagues except for fans of the team (and that is including fans of the league )

A lot of people get a hard-on over the Spanish league but when realistically the most entertaining aspect of the entire season to date is Real Madrid being behind Atlético Madrid in the league it doesn't say much for it really. Oh but they have Messi and Ronaldo and FIFA's World XI all being Spanish league players, I must be wrong.
 
Spurs or Sex? said:
In my opinion, the EPL is by far the best league in the world.

The strength of the clubs show that any team can beat anyone on their day. The fight for the top 7 or 8 placess is brilliant and all teams fighting for them places are a match for most clubs around the world.

Using us as an example, we qualified for the CL for the first time and was able to record a famous win at home against the reigning champions of the competition - Inter Milan - beating them fairly comfortably and then managed a remarkable win away at the San Siro against AC Milan. Baring in mind we're the 4th/ 5th best team in the country, to beat two of the biggest and best teams in the world just shows the strength that the Prem has to offer.

Players around the world always want to come over to England and challenge themselves. The strength shows that teams like Southampton are attractive to players like Gaston Ramirez, a player that was linked to many top European sides. QPR too, (albeit with money doing the talking) have attracted players like Remy who was also a player tracked by many "bigger" teams. You won't see these players joining the likes of Valladolid/ Osasuna/ Siena/ Cagliari/ Nuremberg/ Augsburg and so on...

While I think Spain has the two best teams in the world, our league is a far superior competition, the pace of the game is like no other. Finishing in places like 3rd/ 4th/ 5th/ 6th can be seen as a real achievement, despite the fact you get no trophy for it.[/QUOTE]

Arsene.....is that you? <whistle>
Click to expand...
 
Spurs or Sex? said:
<laugh> Leave it out!

But in all seriousness, finishing in the top 6 or 7 in the EPL is a decent acheivement in fairness.
Click to expand...

Haha, indeed i think 14 teams would bite your hand off for those positions.
I also remember when Levy and co took over, consistant Uefa cup qualifying was their first target and we have by and large managed it every year.

Thanks to everyone who has had an input.

I guess my next questions then would be:

when the new financial deal kicks in, will Spurs finally be able to get that 30m striker or will 30m strikers suddenly become 50m strikers?
And will the extra money mean teams are more tempted to buy from abroad then from home grown players?
 
The PL is over rated

Our top teams struggle against the best from Spain and Germany

The Europa league always seems to be dominated by Spanish or Portuguese teams while the English representation usually gets knocked out by a half decent Russian or Ukrainian side.
 
KingHotspur said:
The PL is over rated

Our top teams struggle against the best from Spain and Germany

The Europa league always seems to be dominated by Spanish or Portuguese teams while the English representation usually gets knocked out by a half decent Russian or Ukrainian side.
Click to expand...

<applause> .
 
Spurs or Sex? said:
In my opinion, the EPL is by far the best league in the world.

The strength of the clubs show that any team can beat anyone on their day. The fight for the top 7 or 8 placess is brilliant and all teams fighting for them places are a match for most clubs around the world.

Using us as an example, we qualified for the CL for the first time and was able to record a famous win at home against the reigning champions of the competition - Inter Milan - beating them fairly comfortably and then managed a remarkable win away at the San Siro against AC Milan. Baring in mind we're the 4th/ 5th best team in the country, to beat two of the biggest and best teams in the world just shows the strength that the Prem has to offer.

Players around the world always want to come over to England and challenge themselves. The strength shows that teams like Southampton are attractive to players like Gaston Ramirez, a player that was linked to many top European sides. QPR too, (albeit with money doing the talking) have attracted players like Remy who was also a player tracked by many "bigger" teams. You won't see these players joining the likes of Valladolid/ Osasuna/ Siena/ Cagliari/ Nuremberg/ Augsburg and so on...

While I think Spain has the two best teams in the world, our league is a far superior competition, the pace of the game is like no other. Finishing in places like 3rd/ 4th/ 5th/ 6th can be seen as a real achievement, despite the fact you get no trophy for it.
Click to expand...

Only because the PL is commercially bigger and this country has a losers mentality. The Bundesliga is a far superior league to the PL in every department, there isn't really a debate there, the only question that remains is if La Liga is superior to which it is. Imagine an English player from the 4th best team in England going to Spain and instantly becoming one of the best players in that league, wouldn't happen.

Spain and Germany really are streets ahead, the PL being the best is just a Sky perpetuated myth. In reality the PL is on par with Serie A.
 
District Line said:
Only because the PL is commercially bigger and this country has a losers mentality. The Bundesliga is a far superior league to the PL in every department, there isn't really a debate there, the only question that remains is if La Liga is superior to which it is. Imagine an English player from the 4th best team in England going to Spain and instantly becoming one of the best players in that league, wouldn't happen.

Spain and Germany really are streets ahead, the PL being the best is just a Sky perpetuated myth. In reality the PL is on par with Serie A.
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FFS, there clearly is a debate there. Just because that is what you think doesn't make it right. The fact that most people are saying the prem is the best clearly, CLEARLY, indicates there is debate there.
 
District Line said:
Only because the PL is commercially bigger and this country has a losers mentality. The Bundesliga is a far superior league to the PL in every department, there isn't really a debate there, "the only question that remains is" if La Liga is superior to which it is. "Imagine an English player from the 4th best team in England going to Spain and instantly becoming one of the best players in that league, wouldn't happen."

Spain and Germany really are streets ahead, the PL being the best is just a Sky perpetuated myth. In reality the PL is on par with Serie A.
Click to expand...

"the only question that remains is"....Have you watched any Bundesliga lately!?

"Imagine an English player from the 4th best team in England going to Spain and instantly becoming one of the best players in that league, wouldn't happen." ...You're 4th, so you're telling me none of your English players would make any impact.
 
KingHotspur said:
The PL is over rated

Our top teams struggle against the best from Spain and Germany

The Europa league always seems to be dominated by Spanish or Portuguese teams while the English representation usually gets knocked out by a half decent Russian or Ukrainian side.
Click to expand...

Not sure about that KH. I think it's 50-50. Chelsea (albeit very luckily) won the CL last year against German opposition and Utd recently went and got a draw at the Bernabeu but then we've seen the likes of Schalke and Bayern beat Arsenal this season, Barca have beaten Utd in two finals but in general, I reckon there's not much difference as to who's won more over recent years. Would be interesting to see if there are any stats though, THFC6061 wanna help out here? <laugh>

As for Europa, the reason why English teams in general tend to not do well is because it's never taken seriously. This season aside, we've fielded a mixture of youth and squad players over the years. Liverpool and Newcastle have done that this season. Most of the other European teams give it the respect it deserves and therefore it's no surprise they do well in the competition.

District Line said:
Only because the PL is commercially bigger and this country has a losers mentality. The Bundesliga is a far superior league to the PL in every department, there isn't really a debate there, the only question that remains is if La Liga is superior to which it is. Imagine an English player from the 4th best team in England going to Spain and instantly becoming one of the best players in that league, wouldn't happen.

Spain and Germany really are streets ahead, the PL being the best is just a Sky perpetuated myth. In reality the PL is on par with Serie A.
Click to expand...

How do you come to those conclusions though DL? Granted the likes of Bayern, Barca and Real are better teams in terms of quality than what we have over here, but our league in general, to me, is far superior for it's competition. You frequently see Barca and Real beat teams 4 or 5-0, to me that doesn't make it a strong league, it just shows the gulf in class between the two best teams in the world and the rest... City and Utd are the top two over here yet it's not often they dominate all the play and win by massive margins, granted they're not on Barca & Real's level but that's what makes the actual competition more exciting to me, it'd get a little boring if the same two were constantly smashing teams.
 
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