Jenson Vs Lewis

[El_Bando]

Surely the best battle of the race, and good to see Button can match Hamilton and is just as good at overtaking but sadly Jenson was on the wrong strategy which gave Lewis the 4th Place very easilly.

I think Jensons team should stop with the tyre strategy. We know Jenson is good with his tyres but the time is not right yet for this strategy. Maybe they should try a Lewis 4 stop strategy and see what Button can do pound for pound. This is what I would like to see.

 

[genjigonzales]

... Jenson was on the wrong strategy which gave Lewis the 4th Place very easilly.

I don't really agree with all the criticism of Button's strategy. He did finish a minute behind the leader and twenty seconds behind Hamilton, that's true, but in terms of finishing positions Button started 6th and finished 6th. Hamilton started 4th and finished 4th, forty seconds behind Vettel, so why was he on the right strategy?

I just think they tried something different and it was worth a try. He didn't gain anything but then neither did Hamilton on his strategy.

 

[El_Bando]

I don't really agree with all the criticism of Button's strategy. He did finish a minute behind the leader and twenty seconds behind Hamilton, that's true, but in terms of finishing positions Button started 6th and finished 6th. Hamilton started 4th and finished 4th, forty seconds behind Vettel, so why was he on the right strategy?

I just think they tried something different and it was worth a try. He didn't gain anything but then neither did Hamilton on his strategy.

Fair do's but Button made a good start so from that position he lost out to strategy. where as Lewis was beaten by Jenson and went for 'Plan B' and got the better of him. Also Hamilton lost some time in the pits. The biggest loser though was Massa who was in the scap with these 2 for most of the race

 

[Sarge]

I don't honestly think strategy had much to do with it.
Lewis' last pit stop apparently took about 21 seconds overall, and the commentators said more than once during the race that a typical one would lose about 17 seconds. So Hamilton, having lost his place to Button on the first lap and then doing the equivalent of five stops to Jenson's three, still beat him by 20 seconds or so. That's not strategy if you ask me.

 

[u408379965]

You don't necessarily need to do one less stop to benefit from tyre management, if Jenson had done a four stopper yesterday he would've had a shorter stint on the primes and would've had fresher tyres at the end. Four stops was the way to go in yesterday in the same way three was in China.

 

[El_Bando]

I don't honestly think strategy had much to do with it.
Lewis' last pit stop apparently took about 21 seconds overall, and the commentators said more than once during the race that a typical one would lose about 17 seconds. So Hamilton, having lost his place to Button on the first lap and then doing the equivalent of five stops to Jenson's three, still beat him by 20 seconds or so. That's not strategy if you ask me.

But you could say Hamilton could afford to burn his tyres for extra speed while Button had to conserve for slower. Thats how the 4 stops won out because the difference was greater

 

[Masanari]

I think both Turkey and China showed that if there is a close choice between a conservative 2/3 stop and a more aggressive 3/4 stop then the more aggressive one is the most effective one to be on because you can be harder on your tyres and you have fresher tyres near the end of the race to pick off others on older tyres.

I also agree that the Mclaren battle was superb and shows what good overtakers the Mclaren drivers are.

 

[genjigonzales]

I think both Turkey and China showed that if there is a close choice between a conservative 2/3 stop and a more aggressive 3/4 stop then the more aggressive one is the most effective one to be on because you can be harder on your tyres and you have fresher tyres near the end of the race to pick off others on older tyres.

For those races, yeah, but that might not play out at every circuit. I think the weather on Friday morning compromised everyone's ability to assess the drop-off and how to eke performance out of the tyres. It could be that Button might have gone a bit quicker on Sunday if he'd had a full day of tyre assessment on Friday. Or it could be that he'd've opted for a four stop race as Plan A.

Depending on the circuit, tyre compounds and tyre degradation, it could be that fewer stops avoids having to fight through traffic as much or tyre conservation doesn't mean as relatively slow lap times as Button produced yesterday (Kobayashi only made three stops, too, but having nothing to lose meant he didn't try to conserve his tyres to the same degree).

 

[Big Ern]

But you could say Hamilton could afford to burn his tyres for extra speed while Button had to conserve for slower. Thats how the 4 stops won out because the difference was greater

interesting in that whilst they were doing that Button came out on top. What really cost Button was getting stuck behind 'run them off' Massa, who for me has become a very dirty driver.

 

[WestCoastBoogaloo]

Button didn't drive fast enough in his 3rd stint to make the strategy work. Having said that, I think he was under the impression that he'd be going longer before pitting again, hence why he was driving within what he could have done. There was a delay getting in rear left tyre off in the pits of his 2nd stop and that meant that he rejoined into that pack of Massa, Petrov, Rosberg, Heidfeld etc when he should have come out in front of them. Being in that pack delayed him for about 8 laps which would have meant that he wasn't able to take advantage of his new tyres when he first had them on.

 

[Big Ern]

He was also handicapped by the way the DRS was used, very much in the favour of Ferrari. they'd cross the line nose to tail, but by the time they got to the 'activation' point the ferrari was a second+ ahead, then into the start/finish and they were nose to tail again. Did a good job to finally overcome the disadvantage and get close enough, but by then his race was effectively over.

 

[Bergkamp a Dutch master]

I think there is little between them. Hamilton has adapted to less aggressive driving, and Button has possibly taken tyre protection too seriously. The team is learning about tyres and tactics - but actually clearly is way behind on basic performance to the RB. What will worry the drivers is Ferrari's immediate significant improvement. I assume that Alonso had some mods that Massa did not?
Another thing that became clear was Rosberg's poor acceleration from low gearing compared to other teams! He got caught several times exiting a corner. If Mercedes sort it out he will become a challenger. The outlook for McLaren is not good.

 

[Forza Bianchi]

What will worry the drivers is Ferrari's immediate significant improvement. I assume that Alonso had some mods that Massa did not?

In Practice, yes - Alonso was testing a new exhaust system, but it wasn't raced (nor was it expected to)

In the race, their cars were exactly the same, but Massa had a lot of traffic to deal with.

 

[Skittles16]

I agree, he tried a similar strategy in the last GP and it didn't come off for him. Perhaps if he was getting Pole and didn't have to worry about overtaking, but its difficult to watch your tire when you're constantly on the offensive.

Great battle between two exceptional drivers though!

 

[Masanari]

I think the problem for Button's strategy was that he was brought in too early and Button was driving thinking he would be pitting later, so he could of gone faster if he knew he was going to be pitted earlier than he could of been. It also did not help that he got stuck behind Massa for several laps because Massa could not pass Petrov but was still close behind him so could use his DRS which negated Button's use of it.

I have still got relatively high hopes for Button this season, things have not clicked into place so far, if they had then he could of easily been on the podium three times.

 

[Julius Caesar]

Some of Jenson's racing was very good yesterday. Some of his overtakes were great. The duel with Hamilton (and various other moves he made) has emphasizes how we are seeing a more agressive Button this year and Sixth may have been his starting position but he deserved more in the race. The Clear show that the strategy was wrong comes from comparing him to Lewis. Taking into account lewis was behind after the first stint the amount of time he gained (especially considering the abysmal pitstop) is staggering.

 

[CookinFlatSix]

Strategy was not wrong, Button was not quick enough or bold enough to overtake the cars he was stuck behind

He could have switched to a 4 stopper and didn't, because the only way he is going to beat the top guys is to do something different

China made all the teams realise that a pitstop time can be clawed back quicker than a guy on older tyres staying out, Button gambled and wasn't fast enough to make it work

 

[Julius Caesar]

, Button was not quick enough or bold enough to overtake the cars he was stuck behind

That is just idiotic. He overtook pretty frequently. He got stuck once. Was Hamilton not "Bold" enough to pass Button earlier in the race?

He could have switched to a 4 stopper and didn't, because the only way he is going to beat the top guys is to do something different

You can't win a race without trying something different with Vettel on the form he is on. As for the rest of the top guys. Obviously he is normally behind Lewis but to say he can't beat anyone else on a regular strategy is again stupid. How about Malaysia for a recent example.

China made all the teams realise that a pitstop time can be clawed back quicker than a guy on older tyres staying out, Button gambled and wasn't fast enough to make it work

It was a team decision. They intended to run the same for Hamilton before he burnt his tyres. It wasn't possible to make it work. McLaren thought they could pull it off with Jenson saving his tyres well in the first stint, but to pretend it was a speed issue with tyres so clearly dying. If he had gone any faster the tyres would have been even worse or he would have had to 4 stop. The better strategy.

 

[CookinFlatSix]

Alex

Well reasoned response, passionate and emotive

Just one thing though

Lewis had a lengthy pitstop equivalent to an extra stop, and still spanked Jenson

Lewis' lap time were always quicker than Jensons after each stop

Button is a nice guy and obviously very handsome, however when it comes to F1 he couldn't make a 3 stop strategy work because his stints were not fast enough and he was not able to dispatch cars in front quickly when it mattered

 

[Masanari]

Alex

Well reasoned response, passionate and emotive

Just one thing though

Lewis had a lengthy pitstop equivalent to an extra stop, and still spanked Jenson

Lewis' lap time were always quicker than Jensons after each stop

Button is a nice guy and obviously very handsome, however when it comes to F1 he couldn't make a 3 stop strategy work because his stints were not fast enough and he was not able to dispatch cars in front quickly when it mattered

Button also had a long pitstop which put him in traffic.

The reason why one or two of his stints were not fast enough is because he thought he would be staying out for longer so was driving for that but Mclaren brought him in earlier than he was expecting.

Button also dispatch everyone he came up to, he had a bit of problem with Massa the second time around but that was because Massa could not get passed Petrov so was following him allowing Massa to deploy his DRS which negated Button's DRS, however Button still got passed Massa in the end.