The fall of Arsenal

[crackerman jack]

Firstly for any Arsenal fans reading our board this isn't intended in anyway as a wind up thread. Arsenal over the last 15 years have had some amazing players. There was a link on the recent match thread vs Everton when they won 7-0, I think in 2005. They had Bergkamp, Henry, Pires, Viera, Van Persie all playing. All arguably world class players. No Spurs player playing at that time would of had a sniff of getting in that team
Now looking at their team today, excluding Cazorla, you could easily make a case for any Spurs player starting ahead of them if we were to pick a best 11 between the clubs. It's all very subjective of course and I'm sure Arsenal fans will point to the fact they beat us 5-2 recently (although we all know the reason for that).
My point is the lack of star players now in that team. Even last year they had Van Persie, a truly world class player.
If we keep our heads and have a bit more luck with injuries we should finish above them as we IMO have the better first 11. If we don't we will have under achieved this season.

 

[PINKIE]

To be fair, you were saying this last season too.

We're only just into December, there's a long way to go yet.

 

[crackerman jack]

I'm not getting over confident or over rating our players. It's just the quality of players at Arsenal now is nothing on the past. We clearly have a better squad than we have had for a long time and it is comparable to Arsenals. You still have very good players but not the absolute world beaters of the past. Wilshere aside there doesn't even seem to be the incredible youngsters coming through either that Wenger has been renowned for. It will take time or big investment for Arsenal to get back to where they were and it doesn't look like the board or Wenger are prepared to do the latter.

 

[Spurlock]

To be fair, you were saying this last season too.

We're only just into December, there's a long way to go yet.

Yet you admit on your own board that Wenger's excuses are tiresome. There must be a reason for you saying that. But your need for trying to be the voice of reason on all things Arsenal just make you sound like a confused hypocrite.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

We're only just into December, there's a long way to go yet.

This

The cherry on the cake would be Arsenal doing badly but 4th is the target. Interestingly we have the exact same two fixtures coming up that Arsenal dropped 5 points in, if we do the same or worse we won't be feeling so chirpy.




Sorry for the downer Crackerman, I'll finish with this...

[video=youtube;Dg5Q0GW8LQU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg5Q0GW8LQU[/video]

 

[crackerman jack]

But YV I think you are missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying we will finish above Arsenal just stating in my opinion we should if you were to compare first 11's player for player. There is not a lot in it, like there hasn't been for the last 2 seasons, but this season there is no real stand out player/s in Arsenal's team compared to years gone by.
This is only my opinion and I have been wrong many times before!

 

[Spurlock]

I think crackerman meant in the grand scheme of things...in which case he is right.

Evidence currently being provided by the many fans ringing into radio 5. Aswell as the threads on the arsenal board.

CJ is right and alot of Arsenal fans seem to agree. I doubt this was the case in 2005, therefore a decline

 

[PINKIE]

Yet you admit on your own board that Wenger's excuses are tiresome. There must be a reason for you saying that. But your need for trying to be the voice of reason on all things Arsenal just make you sound like a confused hypocrite.

Actually, I agreed that they were rational and tiresome. Rational because they are, tiresome because we want to hear him talking about us winning. Thus hearing the same things about us lacking edge etc, whilst true are tiresome. There's no hypocrisy there at all

As for our squad, it's nowhere near as good as the one that had Bergkamp, Henry, Vieira, Pires etc, but Jack Wilshere, far from being a let down, does look like he will be every bit the player that Wenger has said he'll become. At the moment, he's still not entirely up to match fitness as he's come back from a year out with injury, so he's tiring quickly, but even still, he is playing well and will get better.

I think our squad needs an overhaul. We've tried to replace top class players with cheaper versions and it's not working out. Despite what some people think about our finances, we've been in a frugal position for a number of years, but that looks like it's coming to an end. We've just signed a new deal with Emirates that will give us an extra £30m per season and our CEO has said that he intends for this to be spent on the squad, so I think we're in a decent position.

We have a great core to this team. Szczesny, Koscielney, Vermaelen, Mertesacker, Sagna, Wilshere, Arteta, Cazorla, Walcott, Podolski - even Giroud is starting to look like a good goalscorer. I think we need to make some top quality additions. Hopefully we'll soon be able to do so. But we're still a decent team - certainly good enough to tonk your lot 5-2

 

[RRich]

I was coming back into Kent from Central London earlier and just happened to sit between about ten gooners coming back from the Emirates. It was amusing. 'This was the game where the tide turned against Wenger'. 'Where I was sitting we gave him some abuse'. 'We need to get Pep or Mourinho'. 'Wenger better not talk about spirit in MOTD'. 'Spuds won but then again they were ten points ahead of us last year'. 'We are going to get Fellaini'. 'We should all not got to thê next few games so the board get the message'. 'blah blah blah, this is thê worst day ever'. When I got to my stop I said 'your day is getting worse, I'm a Spurs fan **big grin** better luck next week'. LOL it was beautiful.

 

[Spurlock]

There you go...churned a half decent reply from Piskie instead of the defensive retort

Yes you beat us..you keep on saying. However your team needs to expand their horizons beyond Spurs and concentrate on the others aswell with such vigour.

 

[crackerman jack]

That is exactly what I mean Dona. I would have gladly swapped loads of our team for theirs in years gone by. Now there aren't many that would be an absolute shoe in before our players.

 

[PINKIE]

There you go...churned a half decent reply from Piskie instead of the defensive retort

Yes you beat us..you keep on saying. However your team needs to expand their horizons beyond Spurs and concentrate on the others aswell with such vigour.

don't worry, unlike Spurs, we don't define our season based on our results against you.

But of course it's always good to remind you of such a massive defeat like a 5-2

 

[NSIS]

To be fair to Wenger, how do you replace players like Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira? Simple answer, in this market, you can't. Well, not without spending literally hundreds of millions, you can't.
No doubt in my mi d that we are pretty much Arsenal's equals nowadays. Yes. They beat us 5-2, but that was courtesy of the petulance of Adebayor. In general terms, there is not much between us.

 

[crackerman jack]

We all know why you beat us 5-2 recently Piskie, bloody hell you keep banging on about that as your argument to everything!
I'll list the players you mention against Spurs players to make my point.

Szczesny - Lloris
Koscielny - Caulker
Vermaelen - Vertonghen
Mertesacker - Kaboul
Wilshere - Sandro
Arteta - Dembele
Cazorla - Bale
Walcott - Lennon
Podolski - Defoe
Giroud - Adebayor

There is not one match up there that is a definite Arsenal choice. You would probably pick more Arsenal players if you were to pick a team but there is no stand out winner in those match ups.

 

[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]

They really miss Howard Webb

When will he be back for them?

 

[crackerman jack]

Oh I missed out Sagna - Walker

 

[PINKIE]

To be fair to Wenger, how do you replace players like Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira? Simple answer, in this market, you can't. Well, not without spending literally hundreds of millions, you can't.
No doubt in my mi d that we are pretty much Arsenal's equals nowadays. Yes. They beat us 5-2, but that was courtesy of the petulance of Adebayor. In general terms, there is not much between us.

I'd have to agree with that and you're right, replacing Henry, Bergkamp etc was always going to be a major task. Given our financial restraints when we built our stadium, coupled with the complete skewing of the transfer market by Chelsea and City - we went down the youth route and but for some bad luck (Eduardo, Birmingham etc) those teams were actually pretty good and could have won a trophy. But the top class players we had (Fabregas, Nasri, RVP) got impatient and ****ed off elsewhere. So we're back to rebuilding again. Cazorla was a massive step in the right direction. But I feel that we need to add two or three more of his calibre, in different positions if we're going to challenge.

 

[Spurlock]

There you go...churned a half decent reply from Piskie instead of the defensive retort

Yes you beat us..you keep on saying. However your team needs to expand their horizons beyond Spurs and concentrate on the others aswell with such vigour.

don't worry, unlike Spurs, we don't define our season based on our results against you.

But of course it's always good to remind you of such a massive defeat like a 5-2

It's the nature of the beast. We are trying to establish ourselves as a top 4 team. Out of the current top 4 (city,united,Chelsea,arsenal) it's more likely that your team is the likely one to be replaced. Therefore we are just crossing paths...as we are improving as a club and it's expectations and you are declining. Nothing to do with the fact that it's our neighbours that we are likely to replace. Your just bottom of the top 4

 

[Cb]

First off I don't know why fans feel we can get a high profile manager when wenger himself was an unknown. Secondly I genuinely feel its the board constraining our expenditure. Thirdly you can slag off our youth as much as you want but I see some great potential in it. The board constantly sells our best players and in the not too distant future I can see a few clubs finishing above us. However I have always maintained post 2014 when we have repaid our debt I can see us doing very well if only fans had a bit of patience. We need to get a balance right no doubt and wenger has his faults but he's doing the best he can under the circu,stances.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

Hey, PESKIE! Remind me, how did you get on against Fulham?

Oh, that's right, you could only draw - at home!

Just kidding, I'm sure you'll bounce back.

Mind you, I must say that I am a little surprised to find you in 10th, fighting a mid-table battle with the Mousers. I thought you'd give us a tougher fight for 4th.