Round 21: Ferrari To Contest Title? (Flag-Gate)

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Yes.

This is a very good subject to open up for discussion, TheJPF. We should know by tomorrow whether an official investigation will begin. If it did happen – and at this stage I am unsure – I cannot see Luca di Montezemolo letting it pass quietly under the radar.

Then again, if it did happen, it is an horrendous error in two senses: [a] that Vettel was so careless; and that it was not picked up at the time so as to be considered as the race unfolded.

I can envisage nothing more embarrassing for F1 than to find itself in the position of having to overturn the result of a World Championship based on something no one appears to have picked up at the time.
 
@willbuxton

And besides, an impeccable source on the inside of a haughty building in Paris confirmed green flag suggests there is no case to be answered
 
The Iceman said:
Well, it's Alonso/Tifosi fanboys vs Vettel fanboys. All it is, is the same arguments every post just presented in a new way to make it look like a different argument.
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I take it you aren't a "fanboy" then, even though you've got Kimi's nickname as your username...

There#'s obviously something in this if there could be an appeal, so it deserves to be discussed a bit. I mean I don't support Alonso or Vettel in reality, would only prefer Alonso to win because it would make next year brilliant, with an angry Red Bull and Seb, and 2 drives both on 2 WDC.

Objectively I've seen the sky coverage of Vettel's overtake of Kobayashi, and it was under yellows, but Kobayashi pits, so you can't really give a penalty. The Senna-Vettel incident wasn't even investigated, which I found odd, especially as drivers have been given penalties for similar incidents this year.

And the video footage of the one they are actually thought to be appealing on (if they do), has the least actual coverage! Just onboard shots. Theoretically to me, Seb can't really be punished for it because he's gained little advantage in the last instance, as the Toro Rosso would have jumped out of the way at the next possible opportunity, it's not like they fight on circuit. The Senna incident I think should have been investigated though, but maybe because Vettel went to the back they decided not to penalise him further?
 
I have now read the continuation of this thread which has occurred whilst I wrote my post (above), and very much agree that this deserves its own thread. I would also be interested to see the relevant posts from another thread here.

I did not see this discussed in the Brazil thread, largely as the result of not being privy to it as the race unfolded, and its aftermath. When I eventually saw the thread with any time to be able to contribute, I was on a plane home, exhausted; and with the feeling there is far too much to wade through.
 
The funny thing is.. If vettel loses his WDC then it will be DI RESTA's fault for bringing the safety car and bunching the pack at the end making the 20sec penalty more devastating.
 
Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener
#F1 We have confirmation by Charlie Whiting: green flag 350m before green light is the only relevant signal. AMS story: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...tels-ueberholmanoever-fuer-legal-6184272.html


Charlie: To this end, according to Whiting the rules say: "If the lights are not installed to the flag post, then the driver is the first signal that is shown Thus if a yellow flag swung and later the light flashes yellow, then the overtaking begins. at the flag. Conversely, the same goes for the green light. Vettel In case between the last yellow light and the green light was a green flag waved. The distance is 350 meters here. Vettel has responded to the flag and made everything right. "
 
Not seen the video yet, but I think that the result on track should stand. It's bad for F1 to mess bout with the results so long after the race.

I also think in general that we should have more little threads on these boards, rather than a few huge threads, like the race thread. For someone just coming to this to read and find out, having to go though a 50+ page thread is silly and won't happen. I really think that points like this should have there own thread as a matter of course.
 
SilverArrow said:
Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener
#F1 We have confirmation by Charlie Whiting: green flag 350m before green light is the only relevant signal. AMS story: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...tels-ueberholmanoever-fuer-legal-6184272.html


Charlie: To this end, according to Whiting the rules say: "If the lights are not installed to the flag post, then the driver is the first signal that is shown Thus if a yellow flag swung and later the light flashes yellow, then the overtaking begins. at the flag. Conversely, the same goes for the green light. Vettel In case between the last yellow light and the green light was a green flag waved. The distance is 350 meters here. Vettel has responded to the flag and made everything right. "
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That would kind of **** on proceedings :biggrin:

That is the first time I've heard of such an interpretation though, has that always been the rule?
 
cosicave said:
I have now read the continuation of this thread which has occurred whilst I wrote my post (above), and very much agree that this deserves its own thread. I would also be interested to see the relevant posts from another thread here.

I did not see this discussed in the Brazil thread, largely as the result of not being privy to it as the race unfolded, and its aftermath. When I eventually saw the thread with any time to be able to contribute, I was on a plane home, exhausted; and with the feeling there is far too much to wade through.
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I didnt want to do it because there is pages of it =/ .... But I have. All the Flag-gate, Fanboy-off, Habanero Cats, beckenbauer, MC Hammer stuff included
 
SilverArrow said:
I read Ferrari cant protest result after the FIA declared the result of the race, only Toro Rosso can since it was their incident. (Even though it isn't an incident)
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Incorrect.

Apart from anything else, the FIA can decide to investigate it themselves without any need for a protest at all.
 
cosicave said:
Incorrect.

Apart from anything else, the FIA can decide to investigate it themselves without any need for a protest at all.
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As it has been brought to light then Its the FIA's duty to invetigate it. I quoted the rule above somewhere... <exhausted>
 
TheJPF said:
That would kind of **** on proceedings :biggrin:

That is the first time I've heard of such an interpretation though, has that always been the rule?
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Yes. Though it has now become more complicated with flashing dashboards and light panels around tracks that only work when you pass them.

The marshal post on the left didn't have a sensor like most of them did so it couldn't update itself at that point until the green flashing panel at the end of the straight was passed.

If you look at the official FIA track guide you can clearly see the Marshal post 5 has no sensor. To clear this all up, the stewards/FIA must make sure every! post has a flashing panel to stop this crap happening again.
 
Tee, hee, hee, this could be fun. It looks pretty clear-cut to me too but I doubt the FIA would want to humiliate themselves so I expect Vettel will get away with it.
 
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