Lazio v Spurs Match Thread

[Spurf]

As the team performance was poor it's difficult to single out players and criticise them. Passing was dire in general and players were constantly making short passes to another player who was surrounded by Lazio players. Well done to Lazio for their closing down, but how much of this was down to an awful pitch. Strachan pointed this out at half time (when he could get a word in with the other idiot spouting on and on).

Thinking about it WHY have Lazio such an awful playing surface and why over the two legs have Spurs had 3 possibly 4 goals disallowed. Having watched the Italians over two 90 minute periods my impression was that they were pretty ordinary and IMO Spurs should have seen them off pretty easily. If I was of a cynical turn of mind I might think there were some dirty tricks going on here, but there is no corruption in football is there?

 

[Dier Hard]

It's not the position though SOS, I've alluded to that. It's the fact that he should be doing things a little more simple because he's out of position. Like I said, he seems a little cocky and his decision making has been poor. At the moment, the defence needs as much stability as poss. The central defenders are forever switching, as is who is playing at left back, as well as the goalkeeper. (until the last couple of games). We aren't settled at all and I just feel that Naughton isn't helping what is already a very dodgy back line, leaking goals.

Could Demps and Sig even leave in Jan? wouldn't that be 3 clubs in less than a year?

I'm going to stop there, and switch to the transfer thread.

I wouldn't say he's cocky, got nothing to be cocky about tbh, agree he's made mistakes but like I said I won't be too critical of a player who's yet to play on his favoured side especially as the one who is playing in his preferred position has been dire. Perhaps we should stick Walker LB and Naughton RB just to see how they fare - actually, scrap that, Walker's been sh*t on his favourerd side, last thing I want is him out of position .

I think that's very negative on them, Charlie looked rubbish when he arrived and Modric played like a ghost with whole games totally bypassing him. Dempsey and Sig don't have anything to prove in terms of abillity, they just need to show it for us. Walker did well for most of the match so we disagree there, it's Naughton who seems to continually escape any real criticism from Spurs fans on here who was a mess all game. Similarly Carroll didn't really do anything worth noting apart from the pass for the disallowed goal yet he's some shining light, there's nothing we seem to like more than getting carried away with a youngster's performance. Don't get me wrong, he was better than Huddlestone but that's not particularly hard.

I thought Charlie looked great when he signed, wasn't it in his first season where our defence kept a record number of clean sheets at home that season? He was never a beast going forward but was really strong defensively.
Modric took a while to get going but there were positive signs from the off that he was going to be a good player for us.
In regards to Dempsey and Sig, in my opinion they do need to show their quality, they're just looking like one club wonders at the moment like Pienaar (Everton) and Bentley (Blackburn) and aren't showing any signs they're about to turn a corner. Dempsey looks so uninterested it p*sses me off, I can be a little lenient on Sig as he's not had as much time on the pitch as Dempsey but for players of their supposed quality, you expect to see something that gives you hope they're about to hit form, look at Vertonghen & Dembele, they've have hit the ground running since joining and youngsters like Carroll & Falque have looked far better than the pair in the chances they've had.
I've said before I think it's harsh to judge Naughton when he's constantly played out of position but I wouldn't say he was much worse than Walker throughout the 90 minutes, both got caught out at times and needed Caulker/ Vertonghen/ Lloris to cover their mistakes. The whole defence looked shaky last night and that's why I said I felt we needed Daws big time.
I thought Carroll done what was needed, kept play simple and was unlucky not to be creditied with an assist in which could have won the game for us.

agree though, you don't have to do much to be better than Hudd at the moment.

 

[SpursDisciple]

I'm starting to agree with that BBC feed update guy that last week said Lloris tends to go for the Hollywood save too often.

He had plenty of time there to adjust his position and comfortably stop that shot.

I haven't read the rest of this thread yet, but I hope someone put you right on this. The movement on the ball (swerved both ways) make that a truly great save.

 

[SpursDisciple]

Have you been told off for your views HIAG?

No, only for abusing Spurs fans. But he seems unable to take that on board.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

Is the penny finally dropping!, you do not program players like robots to do exactly what you say, never mind football, sport does not work like that. You endeavour to get the best from players best attributes. Forcing players to play to what is essentially their weak points, is just ridiculous. I said this from day one that Bale would suffer from this way of playing and we would rarely see one of his 50yd charges we loved and lets be honest, thats when he's at his devastating best. Playing a highline compresses the play into a small area, he doesn't get the room. A compressed area requires consistant exceptional touch and passing accuracy, I could name on one hand with fingers to spare our players that fit that criteria. This system will not work with this set of players...but what do I know!

How often did we see 50 yard charges from Bale anyway? It was only a few games here and there and that's because we played an inferior team that was pushing forward trying to score against us. As much as Redknapp's chaotic style he had us playing could be entertaining it made us easy to stop if a team wanted to just come to WHL and park the bus.

Being able to keep the ball and pressure in long periods of attack is pretty much essential for any team trying to do well these days so whilst it might sting for a bit we must grin and bare it whilst the team settles into it. In 09-10 we were able to counter attack because teams didn't treat a draw against us as a point gained so a lot of teams pushed forward which allowed us to pick a team off with our pace catching them short at the back, 10-11 saw teams more content to sit back which caused us problems with scoring goals and it could've been much worse had we not had the back up option of launching it up to Crouch for a knock down and in 11-12 we were seen as a good opportunity take 3 points from at the start of the season but once again in the second half of the season teams were able to frustrate us and some even outplayed us when we didn't turn up.

You're right that not many of our players are suited particularly to this style of play but there aren't that many that are totally unsuited to it either. Our record with Dembele starting shows that whilst it's work in progress it is working to some extent and that it doesn't require us to play Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas for us to win with it. It's taken AVB awhile to move away from that style though without him and that's something you can blame him for, although I was guilty of that too. Having already played 4 of last seasons top 6 away and having also played Chelsea at home, if we're not in the top 6 and challenging for 4th after 19 games, that's the point to start asking some serious questions of AVB.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

The problem YV is they've both had ages to put in a good performance. we haven't seen 1 good performance by the pair of them. It's not that they have turned into bad players, but by now we should have seen whether they fit in with us. Verts and Dembele have done so, Sig and Demps haven't. I don't know how long they can be defended, when there hasn't even been as much as a mediocre performance from either of them in a Spurs shirt?

Totally with you on Naughton. I thought I was the only one!

No one was particularly good last night, other than Hugo. I think Tom stood out, because he was reasonably good and was also playing alongside sandro who for the first time this season, didn't have a good game. (not that it matters at all, as been superb for us all season so far.)

Dempsey played very well against Lazio at home and did well away at United too, whilst Sigurdsson has struggled most and pretty much only has a few moments against a poor Reading side to his credit.

 

[Sidney Fiddler]

Dempsey played very well against Lazio at home and did well away at United too, whilst Sigurdsson has struggled most and pretty much only has a few moments against a poor Reading side to his credit.

I must need glasses

 

[Spurf]

Dempsey played very well against Lazio at home and did well away at United too, whilst Sigurdsson has struggled most and pretty much only has a few moments against a poor Reading side to his credit.

I must admit I don't remember much from Dempsey against Lazio in the first leg, and didn't see the United game, so YV have you seen in these two games something that makes you think he'll be ok at Spurs?

 

[SpursDisciple]

I thought Sig was ok last night. Full of running and one fantastic cross should have been buried if forwards had attacked the front post.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

I must admit I don't remember much from Dempsey against Lazio in the first leg, and didn't see the United game, so YV have you seen in these two games something that makes you think he'll be ok at Spurs?

I'm not saying that he'll definitely be okay at Spurs, even Bentley had some good performances for us and there's no doubt Dempsey has had a very disappointing start for us. The way he played against Lazio though showed that he can potentially work for us. He got into the box on several ocassions which is the extra man we're often missing but he also gave Defoe an easy option to pass it out when he got the ball which helped as we all know Defoe's not great at holding up the ball. I also thought it was good the way he dropped back into midfield and generally filled in where needed. It wasn't a flawless performance but it showed some good sides to his game which has, admittedly, been undermined by his failure to play like that since. Against United he had a fairly good game, he went missing a fair bit which seems to be the common theme of his performances but he was there to finish the quick counter when we'd just conceded and defended well like the rest of the team. It's hard to argue he's not a good player and although good players don't always make it at our club it's a bit early to write him off as a dud. Anyway, my point was that he hasn't been crap every game like Roo said.

 

[Ghoddle10]

Right, I managed to salvage 15mins of the second half and have seen some other extended highlights. Looks to me like we were pretty much battered? The only shot I've seen was the bale cross/shot. Not good enough.

Please correct me if Im wrong, as i did pretty much miss the last 30 mins (with the exception of highlights) but once again there were poor performances by the SAME players. Dempsey, Walker, Sig and Naughton.

I'm trying not to be too quick to judge anything, but I'm really struggling now.

In fairness, we actually beat lazio twice. 4 goals disallowed over 2 games is worth an investigation. 2-3 of which were completely legitimate. So therefore I guess the 4231 formation did the job. We can't help that sort of officiating.
The football in the first game was reasonable, but that last night was dog ****.

Both sigurdsson and Dempsey look like they've never met their other teammates. They look completely out of their depth at the moment and don't seem to be able to offer anything to their other team mates. I've completely lost all hope with Dempsey and sig has about 2 more games before he's a write off for me. Not saying they are bad players, but they aren't working for us. I know it's early, but there's not even been the SIGNS of a good performance from either of them.

Walker needs to be dropped when benny is back and we can shuffle the back 4. He's just off form, but it's frustrating.

Naughts is doing his best at LB, but regardless of whether he's out of position or not, his decision making and cockiness is beginning to piss me off. I find myself constantly saying "what are you doing" or "where are you going". He's not up to par for me yet, and still has a lot to learn. Another player like Livermore who I'd like to see go out on loan.

AVB is either going to have to:

A) drop Dempsey and sig permanently if we play a 4231
B) switch to a 442 for example and try to get the best out of them, until that window opens.

I can't watch football like that. The formation works, we all know it does. Spain and Barcelona have proven that. But until we get the type of players for it we should be staying well clear on most occasions.

It wouldnt surprise me if the poor performances could be enough to see AVB in the firing line, even if the results aren't too bad. It'll also covers up levy's lack of backing once again as the blame will be seen to be the managers fault. The fans want good football, at the moment it's woeful.

This is such a significant transfer window. If we don't get who we need its going to be a very depressing season watching this football.

Hi Roo, I would like to see Naughton at RB, which is his best position, but agree he's no LB.

We need JV back out there v West Ham, then either Walker or Naughton at RB

How galling it is tha we have Rose and Smith on loan. I know the loan system has good sides, but it's very frustrating when we massive full back problems to see a LB and RB playing fr other teams.

 

[notsosmartspur]

How often did we see 50 yard charges from Bale anyway? It was only a few games here and there and that's because we played an inferior team that was pushing forward trying to score against us. As much as Redknapp's chaotic style he had us playing could be entertaining it made us easy to stop if a team wanted to just come to WHL and park the bus.

Being able to keep the ball and pressure in long periods of attack is pretty much essential for any team trying to do well these days so whilst it might sting for a bit we must grin and bare it whilst the team settles into it. In 09-10 we were able to counter attack because teams didn't treat a draw against us as a point gained so a lot of teams pushed forward which allowed us to pick a team off with our pace catching them short at the back, 10-11 saw teams more content to sit back which caused us problems with scoring goals and it could've been much worse had we not had the back up option of launching it up to Crouch for a knock down and in 11-12 we were seen as a good opportunity take 3 points from at the start of the season but once again in the second half of the season teams were able to frustrate us and some even outplayed us when we didn't turn up.

You're right that not many of our players are suited particularly to this style of play but there aren't that many that are totally unsuited to it either. Our record with Dembele starting shows that whilst it's work in progress it is working to some extent and that it doesn't require us to play Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas for us to win with it. It's taken AVB awhile to move away from that style though without him and that's something you can blame him for, although I was guilty of that too. Having already played 4 of last seasons top 6 away and having also played Chelsea at home, if we're not in the top 6 and challenging for 4th after 19 games, that's the point to start asking some serious questions of AVB.

Not sure what to make of that question?? have you missed previous seasons??

For the rest of the post you are entitled to your opinion obviously, but in this case I don't agree with it.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

A question for the eggheads.

When did Spurs last draw 0-0 with the same opponents home and away in the same season?

I think it's been about 20 years. I certainly can't remember it happening. I'm sure THFC6061 has the answer, somewhere.

Thinking about it WHY have Lazio such an awful playing surface

For the same reason that it's a good thing we're not getting our Olympic stadium.
Lazio and Roma both use it for their home games, plus it's used for rugby, the cup final, athletics and various concerts and events.
Yet another reason for them to play their home European games at a neutral venue.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

Not sure what to make of that question?? have you missed previous seasons??

For the rest of the post you are entitled to your opinion obviously, but in this case I don't agree with it.

We didn't see it in every game last season, that's for sure. Infact in the second half of the season I can't think of any ocassions(Arsenal, maybe?). It's much rarer than you seem to think and relies on the opposition team pushing up to give him the space to get in behind which hasn't often happened this year.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

Have you been told off for your views HIAG?

Not at all. Nor would I expect our mods to attempt to suppress a view, merely on the basis that it was opposed to their own (or that of anyone who might otherwise complain). Our mods are easily among the most reasonable and even-handed on this site.

My barbed comment was aimed at that handful of posters on this board who appear to be very angry with me that I dared to call the shots like they are, regarding AVB.

Personally, I don't mind the criticism - I thrive on it - but I am concerned that those of a more sensitive disposition may be overly intimidated for daring to voice their concerns over how our club is being managed and run.

I'm not going to say any more than that (whatever the provocation), because I see little point in debating with people who are so easily going to take offense. Let's just accept that, regardless of the BS some of us may now spout about this being the most open of NA606 boards, the reality is that there are some subjects that some of us are simply too immature to discuss without getting personal.

 

[SpursDisciple]

My barbed comment was aimed at that handful of posters on this board who appear to be very angry with me that I dared to call the shots like they are, regarding AVB.

WTF does that even mean? I will repeat again. You called RCL (and by implication many others of us) Sheep because of his continued support for AVB - a legimate viewpoint whether you agree or not. And then made it even worse by saying people "like him" are the sort that would've turned a blind eye to Hitler. On the Tottenham board ffs. Nothing to do with you "calling the shots" whatever that means.

 

[Roo]

Dempsey played very well against Lazio at home and did well away at United too, whilst Sigurdsson has struggled most and pretty much only has a few moments against a poor Reading side to his credit.

I'm struggling with Lazio mate. I literally can't remember, which probably says a lot about Dempsey's game. I just remember the diving header, which was disallowed. that was a good finish though.
As for united, yes, he was better, but for me, that was due to a great team performance where we stuck together. everyone helped everyone in that game. He wasn't brilliant, but he wasn't bad. So yes, I suppose that's 1 pretty good game...

Hi Roo, I would like to see Naughton at RB, which is his best position, but agree he's no LB.

We need JV back out there v West Ham, then either Walker or Naughton at RB

How galling it is tha we have Rose and Smith on loan. I know the loan system has good sides, but it's very frustrating when we massive full back problems to see a LB and RB playing fr other teams.

Hi
Same goes for Danny Rose, GH10. he's never impressed me massively and i think he's overrated because of that goal he scored against arsenal. I was a little surprised to see Smith go at the time, but thinking about it, without hindsight, was he really going to get a game? when there's 2 RB options already in Walker and Naughton, the chances were minimal. - perhaps not how now though, as things have turned out!

I probably sound like I'm being really harsh towards the youngsters, but I'm just trying to look at it from a "top 4" point of view and asking myself if these lads will really be able to cut it? I think most of them are good players, but most will not be top 4 standard, IMO.

I think Carroll has the most potential. There's something about him which has the edge for me. I don't know what it is.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

Okay, I'll admit that the "Hitler" jibe was as misjudged and it was unfair. I never meant it the way that it came out - I was quite angry, at the time - but, nevertheless, I apologise for any offense that its use may have caused.

 

[SpursDisciple]

Okay, I'll admit that the "Hitler" jibe was as misjudged and it was unfair. I never meant it the way that it came out - I was quite angry, at the time - but, nevertheless, I apologise for any offense that its use may have caused.

Thanks.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Okay, I'll admit that the "Hitler" jibe was as misjudged and it was unfair. I never meant it the way that it came out - I was quite angry, at the time - but, nevertheless, I apologise for any offense that its use may have caused.

.