James McClean refusing to wear poppy on shirt

[RebelBhoy]

Don't waste your time with Roger, as we have seen in this very thread, all he EVER does is lose arguments then edit someone's post to say whatever the hell he wants, then continues the argument from that point......

I've seen that already.

I don't mind. I think there is a good debate to be had here and I think people have made their points robsutly and that is ok. If he was capable of intellectualising and articulating his point it might be interesting to examine. However I fear it is barren territory.

 

[Makemstine Roger]

Billy was never a para hahaha

shirt lifting little arse wipe, you said i wasnt 10 mins ago, then use my post to verify i am, utter scumbag

 

[The Ides of March]

So I'll ask again what that has to do with James McClean?

Hi Rebel

I started a different link on the Saints Board and suggested wearing the EU symbol to celebrate 40 years of EU membership on the shirt. EU membership was approved by both Loyalists and Nationalists in Northern Ireland so surely McClean could not object to that!! Unless he is a member of UKIP which I doubt!!

 

[Makemstine Roger]

I've seen that already.

I don't mind. I think there is a good debate to be had here and I think people have made their points robsutly and that is ok. If he was capable of intellectualising and articulating his point it might be interesting to examine. However I fear it is barren territory.

then why do you keep linking James with your own vindictive little points about Ira scumbags.


top trannie, does the avatar rebel boy not switch on the light bulb in your tiny little mind, the ****ers an IRA supporter dip ****.

 

[TopTierToon]

I've seen that already.

I don't mind. I think there is a good debate to be had here and I think people have made their points robsutly and that is ok. If he was capable of intellectualising and articulating his point it might be interesting to examine. However I fear it is barren territory.

Yeah you certainly swayed me, last night I considered McCleana complete and utter ****, your posts have made me revise that position. I still believe it's much easier to just tow the party line and sit there quietly rather than do something he knows will cause agro, but I can understand where he;s coming from after reading what you said. I do however still agree with other posters that if he is so opposed to all these things, he should not be happy to live in England, pay his taxes to England, but of course he is making a lot of money out of it so he's happy to let that one go by...not as precious as he makes out imo.

shirt lifting little arse wipe, you said i wasnt 10 mins ago, then use my post to verify i am, utter scumbag

I still have my doubts, surely someone as thick as you can't be in the army?

 

[RebelBhoy]

I am quoting what you have written, why did he not wear a white poppy and explain why? He probably does not that thought process.
He is playing a foreign sport though is he not?
He is taking the Queens shilling?
He resides in England?
His taxes help fund the supposed illegal occupation of the North.

He is obviously not that precious.

James McClean is objecting to a wearing the poppy.

He is not objecting to the playing of football.
He is not objecting to taking the Queen's shilling, although I was entirely unaware that she funded Sunderland,
He is not objecting to the existence of England,
As far as I am aware, James McClean paying taxes is not optional.

So I shall ask one more time.

And Adams, McGuinness and Morrison did not use that atrocity as a vehicle to further their aims?

What has that got to do with James McClean not wearing a poppy?

 

[TopTierToon]

then why do you keep linking James with your own vindictive little points about Ira scumbags.


top trannie, does the avatar rebel boy not switch on the light bulb in your tiny little mind, the ****ers an IRA supporter dip ****.

I couldn't give a **** who he supports at least he can articulate a civil argument, I don't believe there are any innocent parties in the trouble in Ireland. Now would I rather hear the viewpoint of a suppsoed IRA supporter who is happy to listen to others opinions and give his own in a civil manner, or a supposed paratrooper bumboy like you who can't go 2 posts in a row without making a reference to someone sucking dick or equivalent insults?

 

[RebelBhoy]

then why do you keep linking James with your own vindictive little points about Ira scumbags.


top trannie, does the avatar rebel boy not switch on the light bulb in your tiny little mind, the ****ers an IRA supporter dip ****.

If I keep making that link then you should have absolutely no problem in locating one single post where I have done that.

 

[jimmythesaint]

I am quoting what you have written, why did he not wear a white poppy and explain why? He probably does not that thought process.
He is playing a foreign sport though is he not?
He is taking the Queens shilling?
He resides in England?
His taxes help fund the supposed illegal occupation of the North.

He is obviously not that precious.

James McClean is objecting to a wearing the poppy.

He is not objecting to the playing of football.
He is not objecting to taking the Queen's shilling, although I was entirely unaware that she funded Sunderland,
He is not objecting to the existence of England,
As far as I am aware, James McClean paying taxes is not optional.

So I shall ask one more time.

And Adams, McGuinness and Morrison did not use that atrocity as a vehicle to further their aims?

What has that got to do with James McClean not wearing a poppy?

You can not have your cake and eat it, if I was a professional footballer who could make a living around the globe playing the game and I have republican political views why would I go and help that cause by funding it?
The wearing of the poppy is a display of remembrance, why not wear a white one and then explain why? It may even help persuade others to do so, this simple non conformist rebellious attitude falls right into the hands of the extreme sides of the divide.

 

[RebelBhoy]

Yeah you certainly swayed me, last night I considered McCleana complete and utter ****, your posts have made me revise that position. I still believe it's much easier to just tow the party line and sit there quietly rather than do something he knows will cause agro, but I can understand where he;s coming from after reading what you said. I do however still agree with other posters that if he is so opposed to all these things, he should not be happy to live in England, pay his taxes to England, but of course he is making a lot of money out of it so he's happy to let that one go by...not as precious as he makes out imo.

It genuinely isn't a stance against all things English. When the Saville inquiry was released I had a friend visiting from London. As a matter of course he wears his "Help for Heroes" wristband. I told him what the likely outcome of the inquiry was and he agreed to leave the band at my house while we went out for the day. He couldn't believe the scenes that day and when we came home that night what he was struck with was that there wasn't anger directed towards him. People here could mentally compartmentalise that England and the English didn't equate to the army. I was proud that day of nothing in particular other than the fact that civility remained the order of the day.

James McClean lived in Creggan. A young boy was killed right where he lived. The soldier responsible shot the kid twice in the head from close range. The family in the house were ordered to "turn the ****ing lights out or there'll be another corpse". The MoD described the kid as a terrorist. They eventually conceded he wasn't a terrorist. All that happened on his doorstep. That runs deep and if he felt he couldn't honour those that did that then maybe going with the flow isn't so easy.

 

[RebelBhoy]

You can not have your cake and eat it, if I was a professional footballer who could make a living around the globe playing the game and I have republican political views why would I go and help that cause by funding it?
The wearing of the poppy is a display of remembrance, why not wear a white one and then explain why? It may even help persuade others to do so, this simple non conformist rebellious attitude falls right into the hands of the extreme sides of the divide.

Sorry you can't have a well paid job and object to murder?

You are the one equating not wearing the poppy with Republicanism which must mean you equate wearing the poppy with Imperialism.Don't talk to me about wanting it both ways.

If it is about remembering, then you remember what it is you are supposed to be commemorating.

And Adams, McGuinness and Morrison did not use that atrocity as a vehicle to further their aims?

I'll ask again.

What has that got to do with James McClean not wearing a poppy?

 

[jimmythesaint]

Yeah you certainly swayed me, last night I considered McCleana complete and utter ****, your posts have made me revise that position. I still believe it's much easier to just tow the party line and sit there quietly rather than do something he knows will cause agro, but I can understand where he;s coming from after reading what you said. I do however still agree with other posters that if he is so opposed to all these things, he should not be happy to live in England, pay his taxes to England, but of course he is making a lot of money out of it so he's happy to let that one go by...not as precious as he makes out imo.

It genuinely isn't a stance against all things English. When the Saville inquiry was released I had a friend visiting from London. As a matter of course he wears his "Help for Heroes" wristband. I told him what the likely outcome of the inquiry was and he agreed to leave the band at my house while we went out for the day. He couldn't believe the scenes that day and when we came home that night what he was struck with was that there wasn't anger directed towards him. People here could mentally compartmentalise that England and the English didn't equate to the army. I was proud that day of nothing in particular other than the fact that civility remained the order of the day.

James McClean lived in Creggan. A young boy was killed right where he lived. The soldier responsible shot the kid twice in the head from close range. The family in the house were ordered to "turn the ****ing lights out or there'll be another corpse". The MoD described the kid as a terrorist. They eventually conceded he wasn't a terrorist. All that happened on his doorstep. That runs deep and if he felt he couldn't honour those that did that then maybe going with the flow isn't so easy.

Then why not explain that and highlight it? I have lived in Ireland and experienced discrimination of the highest order, not all are like that and I have many Irish friends and go over there often but it happens all the same.

 

[RebelBhoy]

Then why not explain that and highlight it? I have lived in Ireland and experienced discrimination of the highest order, not all are like that and I have many Irish friends and go over there often but it happens all the same.

English people are amongst the most tolerant on earth, so I am surprised a kid from Creggan would have to explain his objection.

you know it is a lot like asking why Rosa Parks didn't write a letter of complaint to the bus company.

 

[jimmythesaint]

If he was principled then you would have to ask the question why come to this Country when you know this will arise at some point so he obviously is not that bothered about it, secondly him wearing a poppy or not has nothing to do with the vulture like opportunism the provisionals had in the 70's I have stated that but you stated that the remembrance was a vehicle for money for the forces, that is the same as an atrocity bloody Sunday was an absolute 100% recruitment drive for the IRA that led them to have some of their most effective volunteers in the 70's and 80's.

 

[Billy Death]

A question for Billy D,did you/do you feel the same about Charlie Hurley,Roy Keane,Mick McCarthy,Phil Gray,Jonny Evans,Niall Quinn,John O'Shea etc as you do about O'Neill and MacClean ie is it just those 2 or all Irish?

No, there all ****s, .

Now go **** yourself.

MickO'Tool, .

 

[TopTierToon]

It genuinely isn't a stance against all things English. When the Saville inquiry was released I had a friend visiting from London. As a matter of course he wears his "Help for Heroes" wristband. I told him what the likely outcome of the inquiry was and he agreed to leave the band at my house while we went out for the day. He couldn't believe the scenes that day and when we came home that night what he was struck with was that there wasn't anger directed towards him. People here could mentally compartmentalise that England and the English didn't equate to the army. I was proud that day of nothing in particular other than the fact that civility remained the order of the day.

James McClean lived in Creggan. A young boy was killed right where he lived. The soldier responsible shot the kid twice in the head from close range. The family in the house were ordered to "turn the ****ing lights out or there'll be another corpse". The MoD described the kid as a terrorist. They eventually conceded he wasn't a terrorist. All that happened on his doorstep. That runs deep and if he felt he couldn't honour those that did that then maybe going with the flow isn't so easy.

Fair enough. I also have spent some time thinking about my experiences with police officers. Now, I hate the bastards, and would never do anything in support of them, and I have only had first hand contact with about 3 of them! Made me realise that may be very similar to McClean taking a stance against the army because of his experience with only a handful, perhaps I've been a little hypocritical.

 

[jimmythesaint]

It genuinely isn't a stance against all things English. When the Saville inquiry was released I had a friend visiting from London. As a matter of course he wears his "Help for Heroes" wristband. I told him what the likely outcome of the inquiry was and he agreed to leave the band at my house while we went out for the day. He couldn't believe the scenes that day and when we came home that night what he was struck with was that there wasn't anger directed towards him. People here could mentally compartmentalise that England and the English didn't equate to the army. I was proud that day of nothing in particular other than the fact that civility remained the order of the day.

James McClean lived in Creggan. A young boy was killed right where he lived. The soldier responsible shot the kid twice in the head from close range. The family in the house were ordered to "turn the ****ing lights out or there'll be another corpse". The MoD described the kid as a terrorist. They eventually conceded he wasn't a terrorist. All that happened on his doorstep. That runs deep and if he felt he couldn't honour those that did that then maybe going with the flow isn't so easy.

Fair enough. I also have spent some time thinking about my experiences with police officers. Now, I hate the bastards, and would never do anything in support of them, and I have only had first hand contact with about 3 of them! Made me realise that may be very similar to McClean taking a stance against the army because of his experience with only a handful, perhaps I've been a little hypocritical.

McCleans stance would be admirable if he was transparent over this, the Irish can hardly call the British not open minded and open to different views.
He would in my opinion be respected for them maybe not liked but certainly respected.

 

[RebelBhoy]

If he was principled then you would have to ask the question why come to this Country when you know this will arise at some point so he obviously is not that bothered about it, secondly him wearing a poppy or not has nothing to do with the vulture like opportunism the provisionals had in the 70's I have stated that but you stated that the remembrance was a vehicle for money for the forces, that is the same as an atrocity bloody Sunday was an absolute 100% recruitment drive for the IRA that led them to have some of their most effective volunteers in the 70's and 80's.

I understand your reticence to answer the question. Because the answer is that it is wholly irrelevant to this topic. Once the argument has been reduced to the ridiculous assertions that James McClean shouldn't have come to England in case he offends peoples sensibilities for not wearing a poppy and that Republicans were celebrating that 14 innocent civilians were killed then i don't think we can take it much further and we should probably park it there.

Fair enough. I also have spent some time thinking about my experiences with police officers. Now, I hate the bastards, and would never do anything in support of them, and I have only had first hand contact with about 3 of them! Made me realise that may be very similar to McClean taking a stance against the army because of his experience with only a handful, perhaps I've been a little hypocritical.

Nice talkin' bud

To Sunderland fans, thanks for having me. I suspect we can't take this much further but thank you for being gracious enough to give me the time of day on something I know is a sensitive topic.

All the best.

 

[Commachio]

A question for Billy D,did you/do you feel the same about Charlie Hurley,Roy Keane,Mick McCarthy,Phil Gray,Jonny Evans,Niall Quinn,John O'Shea etc as you do about O'Neill and MacClean ie is it just those 2 or all Irish?

No, there all ****s, .

Now go **** yourself.

MickO'Tool, .

Oh Billy man, come on lad,, that's just wrong...


Feel free to call me and tell me to **** off....i know you won't mean it. But that statement was just wrong mate.

 

[Schwerer Gustav]

Yes, I appreciate and accept the British army committed some attrocities - yet they pale into insignificance if you consider what the IRA did, how many innocents did they murder, Tim Parry, Jonathan Ball, the Enniskillen Massacre, Paul Maxwell?

No, the greatest atrocities committed against the people of Northern Ireland were by the IRA and UDA criminals for their "cause", that point is not even debatable and cannot be romanticised, defended or justified.

Whilst we should never forget the victims on both sides we must try an reconcile our memories of the past with our hope for the future on a united and peaceful Ireland.