2nd Game Summary.

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notsosmartspur

notsosmartspur

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2011
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My house.
Having watched the game, read all the views on it, here's my take, I'm going to use a post from YV as a starting point, only because it has most of the bullet points I wanted to make...not because I like him or anything like that!...

Yid Vicious said:
The main issues so far for me have been(and who's fault):
JD not being suited to lone striker(Levy)
No creative midfielder(Levy and Modric)
Wasting our wingers by making them switch(AVB)
A couple of defensive nightmares(the players)
VDV/Sig not getting close enough to Defoe(AVB or the players, not sure)

I felt AVB should've seen Lukkaku making mincemeat out of Gallas in the second half. Also, Livermore should've been the players to make way for Sigurdsson as Sandro's far better at breaking up play, Jenas and Jake were simply ineffectual at breaking up West Brom as we gave them chance after chance.
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JD not being suited to lone striker(Levy)...how can it be Levy??, JD is not being used correctly thats AVB's fault. Its Levy's fault to a point as he hasn't even replaced Pav from last season...thats right we had 4 strikers last season! But, he is being advised by the new man he's employed that 3 strikers is enough, one of them JD.

No creative midfielder(Levy and Modric) see what you're sayin, but how about this. Up to an hour we had 70% possession stats, very similar to any game you'd care to pick last year we dominated in that sense, but drew, and that was with Modric! That game was a carbon copy in many ways, to many games we dropped points in. Loads of possession, loads of chances, failure in the final 1/3rd with poor final ball/finish. On the day our most creative player for an hour was VdV...he was the first to be removed. <yikes>...If anyone needs help with who's fault that is, pm me!

Wasting our wingers by making them switch(AVB) Lennon and Bale both played 90, I was aware of Lennon as a winger during that period, but after VdV went off I don't think we had a LWer, Bale went 'free role'ing for the last 1/2hr...same result...wasted. So far I haven't seen anyone comment on this.

A couple of defensive nightmares(the players) JV played well I thought, got tested by Lukaku aswell, as did Gallas! but i think he'll trouble many defenders with his strength, but he's no Drogba in the finishing stakes.

Livermore should've been the player to make way for Sigurdsson as Sandro's far better at breaking up play, Absolutely right, but Sandro was knackered, he'd given 100% as ever, but my nan could have run faster at that stage!

The game should've been won in the first half or set up to win at least, these periods of dominance in a game, whether its 1st or 2nd half it doens't matter, you have to come out of it with something to show for it...a goal! Our biggest problem this season is going to be goals, just as it was the back end of last season, and I'll say it again, the new manager, not Levy, is happy with 3. The reliance for Ade to be on form and injury free is just ridiculous and Defoe isn't a complete striker, the inclusion of Harry Kane as the 3rd of the 'sufficient' number defies description. Its a subject that even the most ardent of you AVB lovers doesn't want to comment on too much! Had we been more clinical WBrom's goal would have been a consolation.

Lets give him a weeks training with Ade on the scene and see what Norwich up next brings, not that impressed with this though.
 
I too thought it very strange to sub VDV who IMO was our most creative player at that point. Let's remember that Parker is out and this performance was not unlike pre Parker days his contribution in mopping up is badly missed.

We also have to remember that AVB has had limited time to really get to know his players and their capabilities the benefit of Dawson and the flattery to deceive of Jenas may not be apparent to him yet. This is always the problem with managerial changes so it's a little early IMO to dissect everything AVB does atm.
 
Having played 75 mins with two DM's only to take one off to 'sure it up' after taking the lead would appear to be strange unless Sandro was actually injured. I am sure that he wasn't THAT tired.
Verts looks good, but couldn't cover for Gallas when Lukaku came on. I agree that Lukaku will be a handfull for many teams, but defence-wise, the panic that ensued in the last 10 mins was very worrying.
And surely, having seen Gallas in meltdown, Caulker would have been a better bet to come on - but instead we get Jenas! FFS!!
Defoe is just too blinkered and greedy. Never looks up - always shoots regardless!
The switching-wings issue was more obvious last week (after Bale gave Simpson a torrid first half, then petered out on the right in the 2nd half). Lennon will always cut in from the left so doesn't hold any surprises.

To early to be too critical and some of the football in the first half was good, but there were some worrying signs.
 
Morning Notso <ok>

1. JD as lone striker and Levy. - chicken and egg. Defoe doesn't work well in that position, but Levy hasn't given the manager the players for that role. (yes Ade's come in, but perhaps wasnt ready this week to start for whatever reason). Perhaps AVB could have adjusted tactics, but what could we have done? Started Kane and Defoe? - an inexperienced Kane who might not have performed under such pressure and therefore taken a starting place away from someone who could be vital, such as Sig or Rafa? - it just comes back to the argument about there not being the depth or quality in vital positions to make this system work, yet.
the comment about 3 strikers... who knows. could all be talk for the press in order to help our transfer dealings last minute.

2. No creative midfielder - possession means nothing. We had tonnes of it last season. it's great to watch as it's usually a sign that you're playing good football. but if there isn't a man (or more than one) who can have the vision to think of something new when the possession is stale, then it doesn't matter how much you knock the ball about. But, as you say, in addition to this, we fail in the final 3rd. Again, this is due to not having the creative player to find that genius pass we might need, but also not having the killer central striker to finish the job off. IMO, lennon is also going to be a weakness on the right hand side of the 3. He might have the pace and scare the hell out of defenders, but I just don't think he's got the quality to deliver what's required. on many occasions he picks the wrong pass or plays an inaccurate cross. However, he's our only and best option at the moment, as without his pace, we have no balance or threat down the right hand side.

3. Wasting our wingers by making them switch - yes, and follows on from what I've just been saying. rather than just Lennon being wasteful, it then makes Bale completely redundant too, thus resulting in us becoming 100% ineffective. this has got to stop. Harry did it, and now AVB's doing it.

4. Defensive nightmares - it's early days. There's been a lot of changes and everyone needs to settle. clumsy mistakes are occuring, but that's just through being slightly rusty. Like you say, Lukaku is going to cause a nightmare for any team, thank **** we've only got to play against him twice a season. Every defender will have problems. However, I do feel that Caulker should play alongside Verts in the next game. he's looked V. solid for along time now and deserves his chance.

5. livermore should have made way for sig - yes, agreed. even if we're playing this "2 players holding" tactic, it should be sandro or livermore. I know we don't have a lot of choice with scott being out, but those two just don't work together IMO. someone else needs to take one of those positions, such as rafa, sig or perhaps even Carroll. I would choose Sandro over Livermore, too as I feel he's the superior player.

Final comments.

yes, the game should have been won, but lack of what's been mentioned has prevented us from killing off both sides we've played so far. I don't believe that we'll have 3 strikers and 3 strikers only. (those being Ade, Defoe and Kane.) IMO, that's all just chit chat put into the public domain from AVB in order to help us get lower fees from clubs we're looking to buy strikers from. a bit of scaremongering into making them think we'll pull our negotiations if we have to, perhaps? Like you say Notso, we cannot rely on ade to be in form constantly. Just like we cannot rely on him to not be unjured. In addition, there's also the ACON, which if Togo qualify for, that's going to put us up **** creek. we cannot be looking at getting a replacement in January, as we'll be bent over a barrel by other clubs who will know our desperate position.

Surely this is obvious? surely the chairman of our club and the coach know this? I am confident of that. Therefore it cannot be ignored!

I'm not going to get on AVB's back - we look good overall and I like what he's implementing. For me it all lies with Levy at the moment. we've depolyed the usual "deadline day tactic" for the vital players we need, and yet again, put ourselves on the back foot and given ourselves a 35-36 game season.
 
The more I think about it, out of Arsenal, Pool, and Spurs you guys are the most in need of a Sahin type if Modric leaves. We have plenty cover there but lack a more defensive type maybe.

I'm surprised you didn't try to condition that in your negotiations with RM!?


They reported he ruled out Spurs because of no CL football and then ended up at the pool.
 
Relayer, Just before Sandro was subbed, he was turned and and to chase a WBrom player, Sandro looked like he was going backwards and was blowing heavily.

Hi Roo, the stats mean everything in the point I made, and you've inadvertantly agreed with it. It shows that ball retention (Modrics strongpoint) wasn't compromised...we didn't miss him that much is what I'm saying, and having Mod on the pitch wouldn't have changed the result imo. VdV played many passes and was in good positions to attack.....if only the striker/s ahead of him were intelligent enough to make the runs/find the space. VdV won't match Luka in that position though, because VdV doesn't have the burst of acceleration to go past or between players like Mod does, it just means we have to go forward, past players, in another way, a playmaker is one way of going forward thats all. Lennon Bale and VdV should be ample creativity against a WBrom like side, and I mean that with respect...if they're used correctly.
 
This business about the wingers playing on the wrong side intrigues me. I understand that Bale and Lennon taken alone are capable of getting past their full-back on the outside and putting in a good cross. But with just Defoe and VdV to aim at this is not likely to be a winning tactic. 4231 works much better if the wide players can score and Bale and Lennon are much more likely to do that from cutting inside from the opposite wing where the shot is on their stronger foot. Its another issue about getting used to the system for me, rather than being a mistaken tactic.
 
PowerSpurs said:
This business about the wingers playing on the wrong side intrigues me. I understand that Bale and Lennon taken alone are capable of getting past their full-back on the outside and putting in a good cross. But with just Defoe and VdV to aim at this is not likely to be a winning tactic. 4231 works much better if the wide players can score and Bale and Lennon are much more likely to do that from cutting inside from the opposite wing where the shot is on their stronger foot. Its another issue about getting used to the system for me, rather than being a mistaken tactic.
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Notso - have to say I missed that with Sandro. If that is the case then more understandable.

Take the point PS - but we lost the initiative last week (and previously) as a result. Simpson from Newcastle was turned inside out a couple of times, clearly lost for pace against Bale, was booked once and should have picked up a 2nd yellow shortly afterwards. But he survived to half time and in the 2nd half was faced with Lennon who didn't/can't run at him on the outside.
Maybe the problem is that neither Bale nor Lennon's 'wrong foot' is strong enough (as witnessed by Bales shot yesterday......)
 
Relayer69 said:
Notso - have to say I missed that with Sandro. If that is the case then more understandable.

Take the point PS - but we lost the initiative last week (and previously) as a result. Simpson from Newcastle was turned inside out a couple of times, clearly lost for pace against Bale, was booked once and should have picked up a 2nd yellow shortly afterwards. But he survived to half time and in the 2nd half was faced with Lennon who didn't/can't run at him on the outside.
Maybe the problem is that neither Bale nor Lennon's 'wrong foot' is strong enough (as witnessed by Bales shot yesterday......)
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I only spotted it this morinng watching it 2nd time round. :) <ok>

Well done on spotting that Bale and Lennon only have one foot (this is sarcasm directed at management, not just AVB, HR too.) ...so to speak. Lennons left foot 'corner flag buster' in the early part of the 1st half was as bad as Bales shot! Adam Johnson only has a left foot, but is effective on both wings...missed out on him though!
 
On the subject of Defoe, I said the blame lay with Levy because we started the season with 2 strikers and neither could play well upfront on their own in AVB's formation and if we'd played 2 up top we wouldn't have had any back up. I'm not totally blaming him because Ade's deal was held up by an issue with the player and his former club but ultimately when it comes to getting personnel in, the buck stops with Levy.

On the subject of Modric, I wasn't saying it was the sole reason, or the biggest reason, but we lacked that extra bit of spark in our first 2 games. Personally I think one Ade(fully fit), Modric and Modric replacement could've made a difference in either game. The buck again falls to Levy for the lack of a creative midfielder but Modric is the total prick that caused this all.

I wasn't criticising the defenders, just saying that a couple of defensive errors have cost us dear in games where the opposition didn't take many chances. Vertonghen did look a bit wobbly though and Gallas should have been taken off as he was playing everyone onside as he tried to get a headstart against Lukkaku.

Several people have said Sandro looked tired when he came off so I guess it was something I didn't pick up on at the time.

"I'm not going to get on AVB's back - we look good overall and I like what he's implementing. For me it all lies with Levy at the moment. we've depolyed the usual "deadline day tactic" for the vital players we need, and yet again, put ourselves on the back foot and given ourselves a 35-36 game season." - Strongly agree, we need to treat Tuesday as deadline day if the players we get in are going to have any chance of settling in enough to be able to make a meaningful impact against Norwich. The masochistic side of me does get a bit excited at the thought of another deadline day full of deals though :emoticon-0111-blush
 
Having just seen the highlights I remain very anti-Defoe and Friedel. Defoe has no reason to be in an offside position for the two disallowed goals - it is sheer laziness. Granted we may not have scored them if he had been onside but his play in this area is ridiculous.

And I'm fed up with watching Freidel standing on his line while balls are put into our six-yard box. He had at least three different chances to claim the ball before their goal. I reckon he's cost us 15 points now: many more than Gomez ever did.
 
YV -
On the subject of Defoe, I said the blame lay with Levy because we started the season with 2 strikers and neither could play well upfront on their own in AVB's formation and if we'd played 2 up top we wouldn't have had any back up. I'm not totally blaming him because Ade's deal was held up by an issue with the player and his former club but ultimately when it comes to getting personnel in, the buck stops with Levy.
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"neither could play well upfront on their own in AVB's formation" agreed, yet the twat persists with 'the formation' that he knows doesn't suit the players 'at his disposal'. Change the formation to suit the players then! Its almost like he's saying i don't know fuk all else, I'll have to ram this square peg in this round hole'. Very very worrying YV, very worrying! he seems utterly plan B less...remind you of anyone? <laugh>
 
PowerSpurs said:
Having just seen the highlights I remain very anti-Defoe and Friedel. Defoe has no reason to be in an offside position for the two disallowed goals - it is sheer laziness. Granted we may not have scored them if he had been onside but his play in this area is ridiculous.

And I'm fed up with watching Freidel standing on his line while balls are put into our six-yard box. He had at least three different chances to claim the ball before their goal. I reckon he's cost us 15 points now: many more than Gomez ever did.
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I am not going to get involved in a debate on Friedel, but I will say that as a team we do seem to have problems clearing our lines when we have all 10 outfield players pulled back. As an ex-keeper myself, I was never keen on all the players coming back for a number of reasons, and I don't like seeing Spurs do it either.
 
notsosmartspur said:
YV -

"neither could play well upfront on their own in AVB's formation" agreed, yet the twat persists with 'the formation' that he knows doesn't suit the players 'at his disposal'. Change the formation to suit the players then! Its almost like he's saying i don't know fuk all else, I'll have to ram this square peg in this round hole'. Very very worrying YV, very worrying! he seems utterly plan B less...remind you of anyone? <laugh>
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Plan B would be starting our only 2 strikers up top, 1 who's still very inexperienced, and leaving out VDV and Sigurdsson because of the "square peg, round hole" problem.
 
Yid Vicious said:
Plan B would be starting our only 2 strikers up top, 1 who's still very inexperienced, and leaving out VDV and Sigurdsson because of the "square peg, round hole" problem.
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Agreed - that wouldn't work either and we'd lose the opportunity to get everyone else used to the new way of playing. I actually thought Defoe played reasonably well at SJP and I was thinking that he was benefiting from the new coaching. But back to normal yesterday.
 
gent said:
The more I think about it, out of Arsenal, Pool, and Spurs you guys are the most in need of a Sahin type if Modric leaves. We have plenty cover there but lack a more defensive type maybe.

I'm surprised you didn't try to condition that in your negotiations with RM!?


They reported he ruled out Spurs because of no CL football and then ended up at the pool.
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I was thinking along the same lines. Although that would have perhaps complicated negotiations even further
 
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