How far away are we from a top 4 team ?

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I was using the presumption that A) Liverpool value Carroll at over 13m, based on the fact they turned down an offer from Newcastle widely believed to be around that region & B) Demba Ba has a release clause believed to be around 7m, note I use the word presumption, I do not know if any such clause exists, but i think it was Harry Redknapp who first spoke of this (I think), in which case any potential deal involving Demba Ba would be plus cash, i´d assume.

Ba's release clause expired 31 July, so it would be difficult to move him now. I think you need to keep hold of Carroll because he is not just a threat in the air. He scored most of his goals at Newcastle with his left foot. Plus, with him in the game, he draws one or two defenders which can open up the field for someone like Suarez.

I don't think you need to change much to finish in the top six. Top four might be a tough ask this season though.
 
Seems strange that not Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool did not try their hand if thats the case. Probably most likely a whole load of bollox in the first place, regardless we either need to play A.Carroll or replace him, as a number 9 is THE most important player in this Liverpool team that creates but cannot finish.

Nah, its right, the £7m quid clause Expired on 31 July, I reckon the reason people didn’t go for him would be that his knee is still a problem, and a team buying him would not be able to insure him should his knee explode and end his career. Newcastle got him on a free and had nowt to lose, anybody else would have to pay the £7m plus a decent signing on fee, lot to risk when he would not pass a medical.
 
my yank sources told me we were this far.....


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but after west brom

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I don't think you're a million miles off the top four, but what you do need is a system that will get the best out of all of your good players at once. Every time I've seen Liverpool for the last year it seems like your team aren't all on the same page.

Like against West Brom you put some great crosses into the box with no decent header of the ball. Suarez looked like he was thinking "what the **** am I supposed to do with these?!". Ping, ping, both miles off target. Then when you have Carroll on the pitch you end up threading through balls and he falls over them. Adam plays the Hollywood pass...no one to receive it. I don't know if you need more players as much as you need to to work out what to do with the ones you have.

If you look at the successful teams, Barca pass teams to death then Xavi plays the killer ball, Utd counter at pace with Valencia and Nani, Chelsea defend and organise well and nick goals on the break, Real have Ronaldo and Di Maria running onto Ozil's passes, City have Yaya, Silva and Aguero linking up through the middle. Liverpool almost seem to be trying to do all of this all the time, every game. Imo you need to focus on one or two reliable ways of using the right players the right way to score goals and win games and stick to them.

Thats a fair enough point, I do believe, however, Suarez should have put those gimme´s away, he´s not known as a great headerer (is that a word ? it is now) of the ball but as a number 9 you have to get those on target. The system will obviously take time to bed but it can be done gradually, if we are to have an outside chance, like you say we have to utilise the players we do have & that includes Andy Carroll, he wasn't that shabby on the deck in Polkraine & offers an aerial threat. When the alternative is a striker who doesn't hit the net as often as required & offers a better alternative to the wide men we do posses, I think he should get a chance.

At the same time CB needs to be addressed as without one of Sktrel & Agger we look like easy pray, & with Aggers injury history it just seems like we are on a hiding to nothing when the time inevitably comes when one of them is out i.e NOW. Arsenal, Spurs & Newcastle can cope without one of their first choice CB´s are out, we cannot and I think that is the main difference between the squads.
 
To be honest, I don't think that we're that far from it. We do need a few signings IMO (some of these may seem like luxuries):

Ball playing centre defender - it's painfully clear that we struggle without Agger at the back, and Skrtel looks suspect and lost without him by his side. It's also inevitable that Agger will be injured at some point in the season so adequate cover is required. Coates, Kelly and Wisdom are able replacements but we need quality. Diego Godin of Athelico Madrid could be a good shout.

Central Midfielder - someone to compliment Lucas and Allen but has the ability to hold onto the ball, spray the ball all over the pitch, has composure and generally act as the playmaker.

Defensive Mid - someone with physical presence and a good engine. Sissoko/Mascherano type who can rotate with Lucas.

Inside Forward/Winger - Another Assaidi please. Someone with pace, confidence, and has the ability to create something out of nothing.

Striker - someone to put the bloody ball in the back of the net!
 
I don't think it's solely a question of the quality of players we are behind the top 4, it seems to be various other factors.

When we finished 2nd on 86 points, we lost one of the best players in Alonso and then dropped out of the top 4 and finished 7th. We still had Torres who scored 18 goals for us and losing one player shouldn't affect the league position that much.

Arsenal lost Nasri and Fabregas last season and didn't replace them with better players, yet they still managed to finish top 4 despite everyone saying they wouldn't at the start. They had RVP like we had Torres to score the goals but somehow we managed to implode and they didn't. Arsenal have lost RVP and Song this summer but I believe they will still manage to get top 4, it's like it comes natural for them.

I know not all transfers don't work out and there is probably a 50% success rate, but when we spend £55m on Carroll and Downing you can't help but think we set ourselves back a step. Had we spent £35m on a natural goal scorer that could play every game then last season we could have finished a good few places higher, but instead it was someone who couldn't find the net and sat on the bench most of the time.

Something needs to change and I hope BR and the whole Club are doing the best they can to put things right.
 
I don't think it's solely a question of the quality of players we are behind the top 4, it seems to be various other factors.

When we finished 2nd on 86 points, we lost one of the best players in Alonso and then dropped out of the top 4 and finished 7th. We still had Torres who scored 18 goals for us and losing one player shouldn't affect the league position that much.

Arsenal lost Nasri and Fabregas last season and didn't replace them with better players, yet they still managed to finish top 4 despite everyone saying they wouldn't at the start. They had RVP like we had Torres to score the goals but somehow we managed to implode and they didn't. Arsenal have lost RVP and Song this summer but I believe they will still manage to get top 4, it's like it comes natural for them.

I know not all transfers don't work out and there is probably a 50% success rate, but when we spend £55m on Carroll and Downing you can't help but think we set ourselves back a step. Had we spent £35m on a natural goal scorer that could play every game then last season we could have finished a good few places higher, but instead it was someone who couldn't find the net and sat on the bench most of the time.

Something needs to change and I hope BR and the whole Club are doing the best they can to put things right.

IMO central midfield is the most important area/position for any club. It's the area which allows you to control the game in way you want i.e. keeping possession, launching attacks, asserting physical dominance. Mascherano and Alonso were a fantastic partnership and we've not recovered since Alonso's departure.

We don't have a player who has the composure on the ball, to keep it and spread the ball all across the pitch. Hopefully Allen can do this?

Our midfield is not that great. Our fans seem to believe that because we have the likes of Spearing, Shelvey, Gerrard, Henderson, that we don't need to bring anyone in. This is a case of quantity over quality. Spearing, Adam and Gerrard aren't good enough, whilst Shelvey and Henderson are still young and raw.
 
As far away as Newcastle, Spurs and Chelsea.

Newcastle have a pretty good team and gave you lot a right tonking as well as us last year. Spurs we shall see how it goes with AVB but they are lacking Forwards as well. Chelsea will be in the hunt I feel.
 
What has that to do with this thread moron?
If you are just bitter that for 20mil we bought the league`s top goalscorer then fair enough, but, do try and keep to the topic in the thread. There`s a good boy.

leave this insults out pretty boy and read the post again. You questioned the money element and I merely turned it around. Now if you want to read more into it than that then it's your limited capacity to logic that's at fault.
 
Newcastle have a pretty good team and gave you lot a right tonking as well as us last year. Spurs we shall see how it goes with AVB but they are lacking Forwards as well. Chelsea will be in the hunt I feel.

Everyones overrating chelsea because they have signed some kids. They are as good as a new team, their main player is gone and they have no striker ( torres does not count ).

They had a better team last season purely because they had drogba. Without drogba Liverpool win 2 cups last season, Barcelona faced Munich in the CL final, chelsea finished 6th or lower and Roman says bye.

thats how close they were. They wont just suddenly become amazing and especially with RDM in charge <ok>
 
top 4 is obvious bluff... there are three sides full of the highes tpaid players and who can spend 50mil on a whim... ie city utd and chelsea. last year chelsea had a shocker and still had two trophies and sacked a manager.... who's the next highest paid squad... why arsenal so despite selling players they should still be favorites.

Newcastle are indeed decent but thier point total wouldn't scare me a lot of previous years and spurs frankly have a lot of work to do to just get back to where they WERE!

I think anfield better become a fortress in the next week and for all year cos i can't see us doing much otherwise....


right now there's a progression we need to see.

1. is rodgers the right guy, give him time. enough to prove on way or the other.

2. if he's the right guy can he build a team out of what he's got resource wise... if not we're wasting our time.

Spurs are an amazing example, redknapp steps in and relegation fodder who were just plain unhappy turn into CL team. why? cos lfc also fell apart or what? no because spurs had a few good players and things clicked.

I get the impression everyone's waiting for some penny to drop and things to all click into place at anfield but i have to wonder if a couple more old stagers need to go to have taht penny drop.+
 
I think Chelsea will be closer to Man Utd and Man City than Arsenal. I don't see Chelsea winning the league but they are much better than the other top four challengers.

Arsenal have signed established players rather than kids, they already have the kids. Chelsea established players are at the end of their careers and in some cases are liabilities. The one they could rely on when they needed him has gone to china.

Who is going to drag chelsea out of a mess this season? A mess that the first 2 games ( city and wigan ) have shown they will likely end up in?
 
I don't think you're a million miles off the top four, but what you do need is a system that will get the best out of all of your good players at once. Every time I've seen Liverpool for the last year it seems like your team aren't all on the same page.

Like against West Brom you put some great crosses into the box with no decent header of the ball. Suarez looked like he was thinking "what the **** am I supposed to do with these?!". Ping, ping, both miles off target. Then when you have Carroll on the pitch you end up threading through balls and he falls over them. Adam plays the Hollywood pass...no one to receive it. I don't know if you need more players as much as you need to to work out what to do with the ones you have.

If you look at the successful teams, Barca pass teams to death then Xavi plays the killer ball, Utd counter at pace with Valencia and Nani, Chelsea defend and organise well and nick goals on the break, Real have Ronaldo and Di Maria running onto Ozil's passes, City have Yaya, Silva and Aguero linking up through the middle. Liverpool almost seem to be trying to do all of this all the time, every game. Imo you need to focus on one or two reliable ways of using the right players the right way to score goals and win games and stick to them.

A good analysis of where we are at. The players are there but the team isn't.
 
We're well capable of getting fourth, we're as good or even better than both Spurs and Arsenal. Arsenal are toothless and Spurs are a joke. They for the last 3 seasons are possibly the luckiest team ever. Their luck is going to run out and thats a certainty. They are a top 6 side at best, Everton who are a well drilled and organised side are just as good as them. Should Everton start their season in August rather than January, they will push Spurs all the way for a top 6 place.
Newcastle are a very good side with very good players, but they leak goals.

Could be wrong but fairly certain outside of the top two we kept the most clean sheets last season<ok>
 
can't wait to see where newcastle end up this year... a mike ashley howler is slightly over due so i am guessing about aug 30 he might just step right in it.

anyway... banter aside, i'm amazed that after buying 3 players soem thing we are still 5 away from a side yet when i said 6 needed in may i was told i was ridiculous. I do think we're a long way off and those 3 new players have a lot to prove to talk about them being top 4 types as it stands. lets see how they do i suppose.

I'd suggest people write out an arsenal first 11 and bench before thinking of writing them off too much but they are the obvious candidates to drop out of a conventional top 4 now. spurs v cheslea = no contest, chelsea will be 3rd at least imo.
 
can't wait to see where newcastle end up this year... a mike ashley howler is slightly over due so i am guessing about aug 30 he might just step right in it.

anyway... banter aside, i'm amazed that after buying 3 players soem thing we are still 5 away from a side yet when i said 6 needed in may i was told i was ridiculous. I do think we're a long way off and those 3 new players have a lot to prove to talk about them being top 4 types as it stands. lets see how they do i suppose.

I'd suggest people write out an arsenal first 11 and bench before thinking of writing them off too much but they are the obvious candidates to drop out of a conventional top 4 now. spurs v cheslea = no contest, chelsea will be 3rd at least imo.

In past seasons I'd have been worried about an Ashley howler. However IMO we're probably the most stable prem team after United at the moment. I mean that in terms of manager stability, recruitment set up etc.