The Aidan O Brien Appreciation thread

[QuarterMoonII]

Goodness QM....you really need a vinyl couch session..such persistent bitterness and vitriol against someone you don't even know.

Obviously you and Mr O’Brien are bosom buddies, Dexter. I did not say that Aidan O’Brien is not a good trainer, I merely pointed out that he has the best quality of horses at his disposal from one of the biggest breeding operations; and the large number of horses that are sacrificed for the small number of good/great horses that we are constantly regaled about is being ignored.

He's awful. Only a terrible trainer would get Homecoming Queen to win the 1000 when she's clearly average, Was to win the Oaks when she's also very average and Camelot to win the 2000 when he's definitely a middle distance horse all in one season. What a loser.

Taking for granted that the words “awful” and “loser” were used sarcastically, we are referring to the same Homecoming Queen who failed to win after the 1000 Guineas procession and was retired to stud, the same Was that dictated an average-at-best Oaks; and the same Camelot that won a very average 2000 Guineas but does deserve credit for showing a good turn of foot and winning despite the inadequate trip.

I can say with 100% authority that other trainers hold O'Brien in the highest regard. Steve Gollings couldn't speak highly enough of him and his methods.

If Mr Gollings had Mr O’Brien’s horses and resources (i.e. backing from a large breeding operation and millionaire owners), he would probably be a well-known trainer enjoying plenty of success. If Mr O’Brien had Mr Gollings’ horses and resources he would be an almost unknown Irish trainer except when Dundalk or Tipperary were providing the evening racing in the betting shops.

Wasn't it only a few years ago that Sir Henry Cecil had about 10 winners in an entire season? What a hero. Definitely better than O'Brien.

Without trawling through the statistics, I think that was at a time when Sir Henry did not have a huge number of horses; whereas Mr O’Brien has never had lots of empty boxes in the yard.

 

[QuarterMoonII]

QM you mentioned a lot of ex Coolmore stock running in Asia and SA.

The reason for this is quite simple.When you have a blood line nailed down you can afford to sell descendands,in fact it is sensible to do so.

Apologies for the lack of clarity in my original reference. I meant the large number of horses that are in training at Ballydoyle that end up at the horses-in-training sales and get exported, not horses that Coolmore have auctioned unraced that have been bought and exported by foreign owners. This is not uncommon with the other big operations (e.g. Godolphin); however, they do not generally use their blue-bloods as pacemakers or run half a dozen in every Classic before discarding them.

we don't know if the others will be there but imagine Frankel, Nathaniel, and Camelot lining up over 10f in the Juddmonte, that is mouth watering and any horse that comes out on top in that battle does not need talking up as that sort of form cannot be argued with by anyone. I think AOB will give it a miss but i think John Gosden will let his horse take his chance before another crack at the Arc.

Nathaniel has been entered in the Irish Champion Stakes, which may seem a much better place to go if they are intending to head for Paris in October. Camelot will stick to the three-year-olds this season because the rest of them are mediocre and victory on Town Moor appears to be a case of lasting the extra two furlongs and not coming up against a genuine stayer. Winning the St Leger will not make Camelot any more valuable in the breeding shed, but the Triple Crown would make a nice epithet.

Also, as a general rule, when several top class performers are put together in a race, it usually does not turn out to be the great race that it appears on paper. The 1975 King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes was not billed as an epic tussle beforehand and effectively finished both Grundy and Bustino in providing one.

RON, dont post pictures of PrincessNewmarket without her permission!

That is not PrincessNewmarket – she’s taller, blonde and does not wear that much...

 

[Istabraq]

If anyone is doubting Aidan O'Brien's quality as a trainer then look no further than My name sake...

His handling of Istabraq and to get him to 5 Cheltenham festivals is up there with the performance of Paul Nicholls and Kauto Star for Me. Istabraq was turned out pristinely every time he raced apart from obviously his last ever race where he was never travelling and a great career was over. Aidan O'Brien hasn't only trained a 3 time Champion Hurdle winner, Look at what he's done on the flat. Its true in saying that he gets the best horses year in year out but with the best horses comes pressure. Can you imagine the amount of pressure hes under year in year out? John Magnier, Michael Tabor and Derrick Smith plough millions of talent into Ballydoyle every year and its his job to get them past the Epsom winning post before everything else. At times hes made mistakes but you won't meet a more modest trainer, Look at how he admitted to his errors with So You Think.

His CV of training wins is there for all to see, A great great trainer

 

[Ron]

At times hes made mistakes but you won't meet a more modest trainer, Look at how he admitted to his errors with So You Think.

Go on Cyc. Say it.

 

[Quelesprit]

Taking for granted that the words “awful” and “loser” were used sarcastically, we are referring to the same Homecoming Queen who failed to win after the 1000 Guineas procession and was retired to stud, the same Was that dictated an average-at-best Oaks; and the same Camelot that won a very average 2000 Guineas but does deserve credit for showing a good turn of foot and winning despite the inadequate trip.

Without trawling through the statistics, I think that was at a time when Sir Henry did not have a huge number of horses; whereas Mr O’Brien has never had lots of empty boxes in the yard.

You've missed my point about Homecoming Queen and Was. They are no better than average group 1 horses that shouldn't be winning the two biggest 3 year old races of the year (and Homecoming Queen probably isn't really up to that level) BUT because of the quality of the trainer when they go off to the paddock's they are two Classic winning fillies. That is unbelievable.

What prevented the other trainers from getting their horses ready for the Classics? They could have easily won with some of the quality that has been rolled out subsequently. Gosden has a fantastic team this year but didn't produce Elusive Kate or Great Heavens for the English Classics. Does that make him a poor trainer? Surely he's under performed with the quality he has by not even bothering to prep those two for the big days? If i'm the owner of either and I'm looking at careers for these horses after racing I would at least consider whether this is a disappointment or not.

 

[Istabraq]

The point I was making Ron was I doubt you'd have got Sir Henry Cecil or Sir Michael Stoute admitting to training a horse the wrong way. Infact I was actually suprised Aidan O'Brien came out with such a comment to the public even if it was true, Its not like he owes anything to the Aussies but he put there mind at ease and most of all that whinging sod Bart Cummings...