The Button Question?

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Smithers

Smithers

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Feb 1, 2011
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Following on from the Massa Question I thought as a loyal Button fan it was time to ask a similar one!

Pretty poor from Button yesterday, a lot slower than his team-mate (which has been much of the case this season), lapped and finishing behind a Torro Rosso that had a drive through, whilst Perez and Grosjean both showed what Button should have been capable of in the Mclaren! After 3 excellent years (IMO) 2009-2010-2011, 2012 is proving to be more of challenge and whispers of the "OLD" Jenson being back?

He's been erratic this season, unable to look after his tyres but more worrying he is now slow - very slow, putting even more pressue on Mclaren in their negotiations with Lewis!

Has Jenson been found out, is he just past his best or is his season salvageable?

Your Faithfully

A Very worried, disheartened and concerned - Jenson Button Fan. :emoticon-0183-swear
 
I have no idea what's going on with him. He was only 3/10ths off in Q2 but then had another disastrous race. He was poor in Monaco and Spain as well, and far from great in Bahrain too. It's not even like you can pinpoint where he's going wrong, he's just woefully out of form. Another driver would be very close to the sack if they'd performed as he had. Imagine if Hamilton's 2011 season had happened this year instead. <yikes>
 
It's odd.

He was quick in Australia, and seemed to have the pace in China too, before hitting the HRT. This would suggest that he's not at a loss to get the new tyres working.

I don't think that it's something as simple as a change of form. IMHO, you don't go from winning a race and being faster than Lewis Hamilton, to being lapped and 2 seconds off the pace a few races later, just by a change in form.
 
I am beginning to buy into the theory that Mclaren's updates have suited Hamilton more this year, just as they suited Button more last year.

It is odd how Button did so well at Montreal last year only to collapse so dramatically this year. And, as you say, at the start of the season he was much closer to Hamilton's pace also.
 
To think he used to be Mr.Consistancy. How i long for the back half of 2011.

I wouldn't say he's being found out. He's more than proven himself over his first two years at McLaren. I can see how the close field might punish him in qualy, but even then he's 1-2 tenths further off than his usual and then his race pace was just so bad.

Its been three races of this now and Jenson doesn't have an answer. There's something fundamentally wrong. I so hope he can turn his season around but hope is fading rapidly. Disheartened doesn't cover half of it.
 
tomtom94 said:
I am beginning to buy into the theory that Mclaren's updates have suited Hamilton more this year, just as they suited Button more last year.

It is odd how Button did so well at Montreal last year only to collapse so dramatically this year. And, as you say, at the start of the season he was much closer to Hamilton's pace also.
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it couldn't make that much of a difference. Just not suiting the car. He's not even scoring points.
 
tomtom94 said:
It is odd how Button did so well at Montreal last year only to collapse so dramatically this year. And, as you say, at the start of the season he was much closer to Hamilton's pace also.
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Coincidentally, Button was the same distance behind Hamilton in Q3 last year as he was in Q2 on Saturday. Hamilton also seemed a lot quicker in the race before the collided. Spain is arguably the most concerning performance because it's not really a track where you expect a driver to be outperformed so comprehensively by their team mate.
 
its about driving style - technique if you like.
Drivers who were more aggressive are coping well, the smoother style ones are not getting tyres to switch on as they say.
Villeneuve said this - and might be right..
Button has always struggled to get his cars set up as he wants, if he is not happy his performance is poor.
 
Is he being too cautious with his tyres perhaps? Sergio Perez did a one stop and was fast, if they'd moved KK over maybe he could've threatened Hamilton, and I can't say I saw him nursing his tyres much. Maybe nursing them early has the opposite effect to what would be considered normal.
 
Bergkamp a Dutch master said:
its about driving style - technique if you like.
Drivers who were more aggressive are coping well, the smoother style ones are not getting tyres to switch on as they say.
Villeneuve said this - and might be right..
Button has always struggled to get his cars set up as he wants, if he is not happy his performance is poor.
Click to expand...

I think it's this coupled with the loss of confidence that comes with seeing your team mate doing much better.
 
We see plenty of sports personalities losing form at some point in their career, but Jenson's problems seem to go beyond that - too sudden and too big a drop. Assuming that there isn't some hidden problem with his car, it has to be about set-up and something new on the car. We know Jenson looses confidence quickly if his car isn't set up to his liking, but I'd be surprised if it's just a case of not being able to work the tyres. Obviously there are details that we're just not privvy to. Very odd though when the opposite is happening to Lewis.
 
Miggins said:
Is he being too cautious with his tyres perhaps? Sergio Perez did a one stop and was fast, if they'd moved KK over maybe he could've threatened Hamilton, and I can't say I saw him nursing his tyres much. Maybe nursing them early has the opposite effect to what would be considered normal.
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Button burned up all his tyres in qualifying, because he wasn't on the pace in Q2 - thus, his soft tyres had already done 5 full-pelt laps before he put them on for the race, and they were shot after 8 laps.

Though that said, that in itself is not exactly encouraging for Button - given that Grosjean made the super-softs last 1 full-pelt lap and then another 20 or so in the race, whatever happened to Jenson "tyre management king" Button? It seems in trying to gain an aggression similar to Hamilton's, he's gone too far in the other direction.
 
Hamilton can drive around problems with the car and Button can't, if the car has balance issues then this will immediately become evident and Jenson will suffer but Lewis will disappear into the distance, camouflaging any handling deficiencies.

Poor old Jenson will appear out of form and Lewis perform's, like Lewis, simple.
 
ErnieBecclestone said:
Hamilton can drive around problems with the car and Button can't, if the car has balance issues then this will immediately become evident and Jenson will suffer but Lewis will disappear into the distance, camouflaging any handling deficiencies.

Poor old Jenson will appear out of form and Lewis perform's, like Lewis, simple.
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I agree with this, but I dont think Lewis is driving around a problem pre say. However, Button has a big problem - whatever that is?
 
I know this might sound weird, but I reckon being the "number 1 position" at McLaren is a curse.


2007: Alonso "number 1 being the current WDC" Gets "beat" by a rookie, loses WDC by 1 point to Kimi, gets "kicked out" of McLaren.
2010: Jenson "number 1 driver being WDC" Lewis beats him, Jenson has bad luck at Monaco and Belgium of no fault of his own.
2011: Lewis "number 1" Has worse season to date, Jenson has best season to date and beats Lewis for the first time in his career.
2012: Jenson "number 1 again" Total **** season for Jenson, worse than Lewis' and yet Lewis is having his best season since 07.
 
Smithers said:
I agree with this, but I dont think Lewis is driving around a problem pre say. However, Button has a big problem - whatever that is?
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I suspect 'something' is not quite to Jensons liking with the car and, or, tyres, Jensons driving form is unlikely to have fallen off a cliff in such a spectacular fashion, I just believe it's that simple. Hamilton is an adaptable driver and not freaked out by anomalies, he just drives whatever he is given.
 
Smithers said:
ErnieBecclestone said:
Hamilton can drive around problems with the car and Button can't, if the car has balance issues then this will immediately become evident and Jenson will suffer but Lewis will disappear into the distance, camouflaging any handling deficiencies.

Poor old Jenson will appear out of form and Lewis perform's, like Lewis, simple.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, but I dont think Lewis is driving around a problem pre say. However, Button has a big problem - whatever that is?
Click to expand...

ErnieBecclestone said:
I suspect 'something' is not quite to Jensons liking with the car and, or, tyres, Jensons driving form is unlikely to have fallen off a cliff in such a spectacular fashion, I just believe it's that simple. Hamilton is an adaptable driver and not freaked out by anomalies, he just drives whatever he is given.
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Good points raised here (above).

Button's current, biggest problem is with braking, and is exacerbated at circuits which require very heavy braking. It goes against the rhythm and flow of Button's natural speed. This is the reason he has been finding it difficult to preserve his tyres at circuits such as Monaco and Montreal, in the manner we have been previously familiar with.

Valencia will provide further opportunity for him to work on this critical aspect of his game but is one of the most difficult things for a 'smoothie' to address. Expect better performances from circuits such as Silverstone, Monza, Hungaroring and a few others still ahead of us.

[Edit: It was a mistake to mention specific circuits without further explanation; particularly Monza which makes considerable demands upon brakes. I have attempted to explain why I included Monza, later in this thread; but fear that it is still woefully inadequate &#8211;requiring more explanation than I have given it. My apologies, but also my thanks to Sea-Man for pointing out the apparent inconsistency of this post]
 
cosicave said:
Good points raised here (above).

Button's current, biggest problem is with braking, and is exacerbated at circuits which require very heavy braking. It goes against the rhythm and flow of Button's natural speed. This is the reason he has been finding it difficult to preserve his tyres at circuits such as Monaco and Montreal, in the manner we have been previously familiar with.

Valencia will provide further opportunity for him to work on this critical aspect of his game but is one of the most difficult things for a 'smoothie' to address. Expect better performances from circuits such as Silverstone, Monza, Hungaroring and a few others still ahead of us.
Click to expand...

I hope so!
 
He's in the same boat Massa is in at Ferrari. Both teams cars have flaws that Button and Massa struggle to cope with, whilst their more naturally gifted teamates can simply use their natural talent to drive around the issues. Remember, Alonso brings 6 tenths to any car he drives, and you'd assume Hamilton has a similar performance edge. On this thought, perhaps Button isn't driving terribly, maybe the car is woeful, and Hamilton is adding 1/2 a second to it's performance, whereas Button can't.
 
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