The Button Question?

Bit of a similar posts to others, but....

If you had to name just a few of Hamilton's strengths in laymen terms I would name late braking as one of them. If the car has a problem in this area which is drastically effecting button then its possible that Hamilton is able to gloss over this in his car due to often being closer to the lock up limit anyway, its part of his style. All the top drivers will be very closely matched but in a sport where 1000th's matter a tiny difference in braking style could well have a huge effect.

Drivers don't go bad in a matter of months for no reason so there has to be something on the car thats not to Buttons liking, and that something must be in a area that Hamilton excels in (I'd imagine)

 

Button's problem started in Barcelona which is when Mclaren changed their nose, surely that must have something to do with it.

 

you know what i think it is?
last season because of the tyres lewis was having to drive quite abit slower than he is capable of to look after the tyres.
whereas jenson was able to push a little bit harder during races because of his smoother style being better on the tyres.
this made it look like jenson was just as quick,if not quicker.
but in quali last season lewis was often quicker than jenson,because he was able to go flat out.
he wasnt able to do that during races,so all of a sudden jenson looked quicker at times.
but how can you go from being faster in quali to slower in the race,i mean if your faster your faster.unless you have to drive slower for some reason.
this season jenson started it full of confidence,lewis started in low on confidence.plus i think lewis thought the tyres were exactly like last seasons,so button put in a better performance than lewis in aus.but as the seasons gone on lewis has grown in confidence and is starting to see more and more that these tyres allow you to push harder than last seasons tyres,so now we are starting to see lewis's pace return during races.and because he knew he could push harder in canada we saw the old lewis return the lewis who nails it every lap setting purples,not the lewis of last season.this must be worrying jenson,especially when you consider how tight quali and races are this season.jensons first crash of the season happened because he panicked when lewis came out of the pits right behind him(because of another slow pitstop by mclaren)and then tried that overtake to quickly and took himself out the game.even if jenson sorts himself out,he wont beat lewis in this form

 

What are they doing to hinder him? What could McLAren do to help BUtton? its been a disaster for 3 races now and neither side seem to be able to find a fix.

What proof is there the car was built for one driver or the other?

Button is just struggling for a bit, like he did at Brawn mid-09. If the car is not spot on he does take time to find the cure.

 

Trulli was also beating him in 2004 when he left Renault.

 

You're right, Sea-Man; but its nature is different. I was trying to keep my post reasonably simple but you are right to pick me up on this.
Carbon brakes only perform well when above about 650˚ (and perform rather poorly below about 425&#730. Getting them up quickly above 650˚, and then being consistent is not something Button excels at, for essentially the same reason his tyres run cooler. And it is when he is trying to do this unnatural (to him) thing that he can experience problems with both. I'm in danger of going into complications I wanted to avoid, so I really should have left Monza out of that post. (Ughh… silly me)… Carbon-carbon (discs and pads) brakes lack 'feel' when compared to steel or iron discs with their metal-sintered pads: they 'bite' very suddenly but the bite itself varies hugely according to the temperature they are running at. Thus, it is a particular art which Button's style does not naturally lend itself to.

You can probably detect that this is going beyond only brakes now and is a progressively complicated explanation. My apologies; but when reading the next paragraph, it is important to bear in mind the implications which go beyond simple brake demand, but also the importance of 'feel' and consistency –vital parts of Button's armoury.

Monza has one point of mega-heavy braking but also has a lap which is roughly a mile longer than Montreal, giving the brakes and driver a bit more time to recover. Downforce levels are roughly 20% less too, which makes brake ducting far easier, thus increasing their cooling. However, it is true that the entry to Turn 1 at Monza makes the biggest single demand upon brakes of any corner of any circuit on the calendar. This is because it is at the end of the straight with the highest speed, exacerbated by running the least downforce (high downforce aids braking). Conversely, Valencia's longer lap than Montreal has five points of very heavy braking, interspersed with other bits to keep on the boil and very little time for a rest (as compared to Monza), with higher levels of downforce. One of the biggest demands upon brakes occurs when recovery time is reduced, which is not so much the case at Monza, which is part of the reason I feel he will do better there. (There are other factors but I do not want to write a book here).

Thanks Sea-Man: I stand corrected! However, my point was that Alonso fears Hamilton more than anyone else, in my opinion.

Ha! You may be closer to the truth than might be suspected Ernie! Button has always preferred the 'softness' of non-carbon discs, and has sometimes run a quite different, more 'forgiving' brake set-up when Hamilton is running the most severe! Again, this is a natural consequence of the difference in style.

I stand corrected again! Thanks Naz. I think it was a shame Trulli did not appeal to Briatore in the manner of Alonso and Schumacher; but I think it should be said that he was more the 'established' driver at the time, and Alonso was the relative newcomer making his mark, without being expected to outperform a team-mate. More to the point: he did not fear Trulli as he does Hamilton.

 

I couldn't help but think what if Schumacher started this season in Buttons seat. No1 in the standings.

 

I really don't think there's a lot to choose between their cars and McLaren seem equally adept at creating difficulty for their drivers.

 

I think Mclaren are more complete in the calender than Mercedes this season, but you are right about creating difficulties.

 

Because Button has had no bad luck at all?

1) Depending on your interpretation, hitting Karthikeyan in Malaysia
2) fluffed pitstop in China
3) DNF and fluffed pitstop in Bahrain
4) Depending on your interpretation, ending up stuck behind one driver or another for the entirety of Monaco

 

No.

 

sometimes you just ask for it with ludicrous statements like that. Or do you do it so people will respond with a 'wum'

 

Haha, both have massively different driving styles your right haha, both of us are going through tough times.
At the end of the storm, the sun always comes out.

 

It's time for James Allen to come up with ideas, What’s happened to Jenson Button’s form?/

A rear end that likes to move around, another one of Hamiltons strong points I guess (and yes I can see the innuendo in that comment )

 

Some of these comments seem to make me think that the first few races of the season, where Jenson had greater pace than Lewis in races on Pirelle tyres, didn't really happen and were all figments of my imagination.

How McLaren have adapted the car to work with the Pirelli tyres (that seems to suite Lewis down to the ground) appears to be the problem. Since the circus returned to Europe and the first big update came along, Jenson went from winning Australia and having a good chance of winning in China (before the final pitstop) to being pretty far off of the pace of Lewis, while Lewis has gone from a strong but not spectacular also ran to race winning pace.

 

As it used to shine out of his arse, I guess it will have to come from somewhere else...........

 

Thanks Cosicave, yet another interesting read there.

I had indeed not thought about braking materials and recovery times, just long straights and heavy braking.

I guess thats why Singapore is the worst on brakes, kind of heavy breaking zones at turns 1, 7, 10 and 14 with continual minor breaking for the rest of the lap with no recovery time. Combined with high temperature, high humidity and a 2 hour race.

 

brakes are for pussies.

 

This might bet the answer you Button fans would be looking for. http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/report-reveals-mclaren-tyre-temperature-trick/

McLaren were told by the FIA to adjust their floor after China. Right after all the problems for Jenson started to happen.

 

To be frank, that stinks. RBR exploited the tolerences to create a flexi-wing, I'm not old enough to remember 'water cooled brakes', but no one can say that wasn't an exploit. F1 is littered with exploits, that's part of the game, so why can't McLaren?