The Midfield Battle

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Which Midfield Team is in the Best Shape?

  • Ferrari

  • Mercedes

  • Lotus

  • FI

  • Sauber

  • Toro Rosso

  • Williams


Results are only viewable after voting.
Oh, come on! I'm really pissed off that Alguersuari doesn't have a drive this season but according to your assessment Marko was right to fire him. In F1 now, drivers are being discarded before they have a chance to develop; yes, Maldo's sponsorship is helping him but that's another sign of the times. There was nothing mediocre about Pastor hassling Alonso and getting past others before him but he's still learning.

Another thing, he was even calm in the interview afterwards; another good sign, IMO, and a first! ;)

Anyway, I don't want to argue the toss with you: opinions are opinions.

I just don't think either williams driver should be in F1. okay, here's a list of drivers who don't belong on the grid (IMO)

Maldo
Senna
Karthikeyan
De La Rosa
Rosberg
Schumacher
Webber
Perez


There, this bunch should be fired with immediate effect.
 
I've not voted because I do not consider Mercedes or Ferrari to be a "midfield team". Since I expect them both to out-score all other teams on the list, it makes the list largely irrelevant.

However, of all the teams after Mercedes and Ferrari, I expect Lotus Renault to make a good claim for the next spot.
 
I've not voted because I do not consider Mercedes or Ferrari to be a "midfield team". Since I expect them both to out-score all other teams on the list, it makes the list largely irrelevant.

However, of all the teams after Mercedes and Ferrari, I expect Lotus Renault to make a good claim for the next spot.

My poll was talking about the present, not the future. Once mass sackings have occured at Ferrari, and the car comes good, then i will think of them as a top team again. Mercedes however just suck. The pace is there on short runs, but over long runs it's slower than the williams, and far worse on it's tyres. It's probably the biggest dud of 2012.
 
Considering that Bruno didn't drive AT ALL for for a whole 10 years since his uncle death(1994-2004), and still having what it takes to compete among the very best, him being ****e is really a fail argument. Massive talent there. If he can ever be as good as Ayrton was, I highly doubt, but give him some time and I am sure he would justify his place in F1 even for the critics.

Yeah, I think this is a point worth remembering - ten years! But F1 isn't a sentimental sport unlike many of its fans, me included - força Bruno!
 
Yeah, I think this is a point worth remembering - ten years! But F1 isn't a sentimental sport unlike many of its fans, me included - força Bruno!

I don't like sentimentality. We live in the here and now, no relying on past glories, or relative's reputations.
 
Also this is an interesting read.

Mark Huges said:
How good is Bruno Senna?
A legendary name returned to the cockpit of a Formula 1 car at the recent Barcelona test, when GP2 star Bruno Senna – nephew of the late, great Ayrton – was given his first proper F1 test as part of Honda’s driver evaluation exercise for 2009.

In his latest feature for itv.com/f1, Mark Hughes explains why it would be wrong to assume that Senna is only in the running because of his family history, and in fact is a genuinely exciting talent whose achievements so far belie his inexperience.

But he also argues that the incumbent veteran whose drive is in jeopardy, Rubens Barrichello, still has a lot to offer.


Bruno Senna pronounced himself satisfied with his Honda test earlier in the week after pounding around for a full day alongside Jenson Button.

This followed a similar test the day before with Senna’s fellow Brazilian and GP2 rival Lucas di Grassi.

They were each given plenty of running, two new sets of tyres and on comparable fuel loads to Button. For the record Senna was 0.3s off Button on the day, di Grassi 0.5s.

They are in effect being auditioned for the 2009 race seat alongside Button, potentially replacing Rubens Barrichello.

Some have questioned why Senna, a driver that failed to win titles in either F3 or GP2, warrants such opportunities – implying that he’s there only because of the drawing power of his surname, the family link to his late great uncle Ayrton and of course the fabulous history between Ayrton and Honda.

But that’s grossly unfair.

Whilst it’s undoubtedly true that the name has helped create opportunities, that it potentially makes any team he drives for a very attractive proposition for sponsors, his progress as a driver in the few short years he’s been racing has been extremely impressive.

Bruno had just begun kart racing as an eight year old when Ayrton died. A year later Bruno’s father was killed in a motorcycle accident and at Viviane Senna’s understandable insistence, Bruno’s racing activities were halted. Apparently permanently.

At 20, old enough to decide his own destiny, he announced he was going to take up motor racing, much to the family’s surprise.

After a few exploratory events in Brazil he moved to the UK in 2004, competed in a handful of Formula BMW and Renault events before making the big jump to F3.

Into the second half of the season he was scoring podium finishes and he followed it up in 2005 with runner-up position in the British championship.

This is way more impressive than it sounds. Virtually every one of the guys he was racing against there had a decade or more of racing experience, most of them in karts by the time they were 10.

Bruno was still learning aspects of racing when he was in F3 that most of these guys had picked up as kids.


Furthermore, the step up to the grip of an F3 car from the nursery formulae is enormous.

Jacques Villeneuve made a similar step back in 1990, moving into the Italian F3 series with very little previous experience – and was hopelessly, and understandably, off the pace. Only in his second year of the formula did Jacques even begin to look competitive.

Bruno adapted much quicker than Jacques, who went onto become a world champion. So let’s not be too hasty.

It was a similar story as Bruno moved up to GP2 in 2007.

One and a bit seasons in F3 and virtually nothing else would not really be considered adequate preparation for the very serious power and grip of a GP2 car that is actually more physically demanding than an F1 machine.

He wasn’t initially a front-runner but he was quick at times and you could see him evolving almost by the race.

He was always very quick in the wet, and had taken some very impressive wet-weather victories in F3 – a sure sign that there is a good level of talent underlying a driver’s performances.

Into 2008 and he was always a front-runner, fighting for the title from beginning to end.

The guy is still developing at a faster rate than those around him – for very obvious reasons.

That’s not to say his ultimate ceiling will necessarily be higher, but what we do know is that even still on a steep learning curve he’s already one of the fastest guys outside of F1, and that after just his fourth season of racing of any kind he can lap an F1 car competitively.

On that basis alone, he’s an exciting prospect, regardless of his surname.

But spare a thought for the guy he could be replacing, a driver who’d already been in F1 a year when eight-year old Bruno had his first kart race, yet who this year was still performing as well as he’s ever done.

Barrichello has a more adaptable driving style than Button, allowing him to drive around a bad car’s problems better.

He’s also very, very good at analysing the dynamics of a car and enabled Honda to learn things Button hadn’t uncovered.

That latter skill has been a bit wasted with the awful cars Honda has provided with for the past two years, but it just might be a very valuable trait next year, with the first design presided over by Ross Brawn.

For this reason, the team will have probably been paying very close attention to the quality of Senna’s feedback during his test.

Di Grassi is renowned for his great analytical approach and it can be taken as read he will have passed that test with flying colours.

Senna’s a bright, intelligent guy, totally immersed in his racing, and it would be surprising indeed if he hadn’t also passed the technical test.

See what odds you can get for him getting that drive – and put your money down.
 
I'm sorry, they were in the midfield, so they are midfield teams at the moment. if you don't like it, get over it.

No, because they had been consistently quick all weekend and through testing, and are historically a top team. Right, i shall explain my reasoning, in simple language for simpletons such as yourself;

Ferrari - Poor car, spent the entire weekend in te midfield, looks like they'll be there in KL too.
Mercedes - Tyre wear issues, making them have to race the midfield, hence a midfield team
Lotus - Never a top team with Boullier in charge

Happy now?

What have they done to be considered top teams? Built consistently **** cars, employ **** drivers (Alonso excluded) and generally make arses of themselves. Thats not a top team.

Sorry, off topic for a second but i've just remembered why i don't use JA606.

A dog turd is better than the williams drivers. These 2 would have the car in the points regularly. Aside from HRT, Williams has the worst driver lineup.

Bruno Senna is ****e. End of argument.

My poll was talking about the present, not the future. Once mass sackings have occured at Ferrari, and the car comes good, then i will think of them as a top team again. Mercedes however just suck. The pace is there on short runs, but over long runs it's slower than the williams, and far worse on it's tyres. It's probably the biggest dud of 2012.

At least i don't dream of anally raping Ayrton Senna's corpse.

You refer to, and criticise JA606. I looked in there once and closed the book. The reason? Comments such as posted here in this thread.
I thought this place had evolved into something rather more respectful…

So, as a mark of my respect for you, I have spent some time to make this comment in the interests of the forum and the respect I hope you have for yourself. Why not think of this for a moment: if you want this place to continue to be worth your effort, why not tidy yourself up and contribute to its respectful debate?

I know you have something to say, but presenting it like this,
Kyle, just doesn't say it.
 

You refer to, and criticise JA606. I looked in there once and closed the book. The reason? Comments such as posted here in this thread.
I thought this place had evolved into something rather more respectful…

So, as a mark of my respect for you, I have spent some time to make this comment in the interests of the forum and the respect I hope you have for yourself. Why not think of this for a moment: if you want this place to continue to be worth your effort, why not tidy yourself up and contribute to its respectful debate?

I know you have something to say, but presenting it like this,
Kyle, just doesn't say it.

Well forgive me for being "Petulant" (mifunes words), but it's the only way i can get my points across.
 
"I don't like sentimentality. We live in the here and now, no relying on past glories, or relative's reputations."

"When i was growing up, all important sports events were on the BBC, and all were done in an accessible manner."

Kyle, I know from reading your posts generally that you're an intelligent member here but for some reason you just want an argument tonight and keep contradicting yourself, as Cosi pointed out earlier. This isn't JA606 and you wouldn't want it to be so sort it out, please.
 
Kyle, I know from reading your posts generally that you're an intelligent member here but for some reason you just want an argument tonight and keep contradicting yourself, as Cosi pointed out earlier. This isn't JA606 and you wouldn't want it to be so sort it out, please.

I was using an example, it was hardly a nostalgia festival, god, am i the only sane person left?

NURSE! The lunatics are running the asylum.
 
Well forgive me for being "Petulant" (mifunes words), but it's the only way i can get my points across.
The point is that you fail to get your point across when presented like this. I happen to agree with some of your thoughts when presented more mildly. But when I read more than 50% of your comments in this thread so far, I see precisely what Mifune saw and you have here (rather more maturely) agreed with.

Well done; it's a good move. You are valuable to this forum and your passion is laudable. But this needs to remain tempered - just as demonstrated by those you've goaded with "get over it" etc. in this thread. There's no need for it,
Kyle. You're better than that.
 
The point is that you fail to get your point across when presented like this. I happen to agree with some of your thoughts when presented more mildly. But when I read more than 50% of your comments in this thread so far, I see precisely what Mifune saw and you have here (rather more maturely) agreed with.

Well done; it's a good move. You are valuable to this forum and your passion is laudable. But this needs to remain tempered - just as demonstrated by those you've goaded with "get over it" etc. in this thread. There's no need for it,
Kyle. You're better than that.

If you don't like what i write, you don't have to read it. There's no law forcing you to do so. I was right, if you can't accept it, then it's not my problem. We all have opinions, just mine happened to be the correct ones.
 
If you don't like what i write, you don't have to read it. There's no law forcing you to do so. I was right, if you can't accept it, then it's not my problem. We all have opinions, just mine happened to be the correct ones.
Well, since I respected you, I wanted to read your thread.
 
Voted Sauber due to Lotus and Merc looks slow in the race, Sauber look quick everywhere.
 
In the sweepstakes we have four tiers and for good reason, IMO. Based on that, plus a bit of wishful thinking and my own bias, I've gone for Williams.

Based on this one race though, it doesn't look like the four tiers are even, in fact there are five!

McLaren, Red Bull

Ferrari, Williams, Lotus, Mercedes

Sauber, Toro Rosso, Force India

Caterham, Marussia

And HRT in a tier of their own!

All IMHO, of course ;)

At the moment I'd pretty much agree with this.

Only difference is that I would put Williams down 1 teir, and add HRT to the Caterham and Marussia.

I also think that this will change quite a bit during the season as some teams get on top of the car and bring updates, and others fall behind. I still think it'll be between Red Bull and McLaren all season long.