1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Bustino's Breeding Bits

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by Bustino74, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    5,260
    Likes Received:
    2,062
    Update with 2yo Sires Data added

    upload_2025-7-15_12-19-46.png

    Starman continues to impress.
     
    #261
    Ron likes this.
  2. TIGERSCAVE

    TIGERSCAVE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17,845
    Likes Received:
    15,797
    Lambourns half brother runs on Saturday. By Frankel its been named ACTION.
     
    #262
    Ron likes this.
  3. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    28,380
    Likes Received:
    10,438
    Coolemore's names are always pretty boring aren't they? In that same race Donnacha O'Brien has entered A Boy Named Susie - much better name <cheers>
     
    #263
  4. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    50,364
    Likes Received:
    23,871
    I wonder how much profit one would have made by backing Palace Pier offspring in GB and Ireland and also Havana Grey and Wootton Bassett 2yos (either all or just debutants)
     
    #264
  5. TIGERSCAVE

    TIGERSCAVE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17,845
    Likes Received:
    15,797
    Now if they had called it All Action.... or Piece of the...
     
    #265
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2025
    OddDog likes this.
  6. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    5,260
    Likes Received:
    2,062
    Well you've got to like him. He probably won that race a bit easier than it seemed. I think Crouch had thought he had it in the bag some way out and as he sliced through the field was perhaps surprised that he had to quicken again.
    A mile will be within his scope.

    Another AOB hotshot 2yo flops once raised in class.
     
    #266
    OddDog and Ron like this.
  7. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    5,260
    Likes Received:
    2,062
    Supremacy mounts a challenge but some way behind Starman.

    upload_2025-7-30_7-27-10.png

    St Mark's Basilica is the sire we'd have expected to see more of.

    This is of course dedicated to pN, whom we hope to see back one day.
     
    #267
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2025 at 8:23 AM
    Ron likes this.
  8. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    28,380
    Likes Received:
    10,438
    I'm connected to her on LinkedIn. She was promoted to Head of Operations at the British EBF in April so I guess that is keeping her busy <ok>
     
    #268
    Ron likes this.
  9. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    5,260
    Likes Received:
    2,062
    Well done to her.
     
    #269
    Ron and OddDog like this.
  10. Janabelle13

    Janabelle13 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,266
    Likes Received:
    431
    <applause>
     
    #270
    Ron likes this.

  11. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    50,364
    Likes Received:
    23,871
    I was wondering where she was

    And if you are looking in Princess, Congratulations <bubbly> . Will be great to see you back here
     
    #271
  12. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    5,260
    Likes Received:
    2,062
    Quite a few years back, when the chief stud I was following was the Ballymacoll Stud, I was very critical of their handling of their best broodmare Hellenic: best because she produced 3 Group 1 winners, including the champion filly Islington. My criticism centred on the stallions they sent to Hellenic during her career at the stud. She was a fairly productive broodmare as she produced 14 live foals (even though she was barren or her foal slipped in the last 3 years at stud). I could not believe that she was only ever sent to Northern Dancer line stallions and found it unthinkable that she was sent to Sadler's Wells a dozen times and produced 9 sons and daughters by him.
    What's wrong with that you might ask? Wasn't Sadler's Wells the pre-eminent sire during most of her time at stud? Well yes he was but that's even more reason not to so concentrate on him. Ballymacoll was an owner-breeder. If they'd been a commercial breeder who sold all or most of their foals it could make commercial sense to use the best sire available. But even then it could be short-sighted. As they were owner-breeders the policy bordered on blindness.
    If you are an owner breeder then you must think about the future of the families you are finding to be successful in your stud. You need good daughters from good mares to carry on that line. The supreme example of an owner breeder who gets it right is/was the Aga Khan. When you look at the pedigrees of his successful horses you find surprising stallions in their pedigrees (on the dam's side). Sure he used plenty of really top sires but he used plenty of others too.
    If you have a top mare like Hellenic and you send it to Sadler's Wells all the time, then any of those daughters by him cannot be sent to Sadler's Wells, more importantly to any of his sons (Galileo) and perhaps his grandsons (Frankel and even Teofilo): and what sires those sons and grandsons turned out to be! To use a Bridge term you've blocked the suit. You've blocked yourself from using the family with the best Sire line around. Not forever but for a few generations at least, and that's damaging to an owner-breeder. So the name of Hellenic and especially her Sadler's Wells daughters have not been seen in the pedigrees of top class horses.

    What prompted this post was the victory of Waardah in the the Group 2 Lillie Langtry Stakes yesterday. Her 4th dam is Hellenic but the 3rd dam is not by Sadler's Wells but by Green Desert and called Desert Beauty. The second dam is Red Dune by Red Ransom (by Roberto) and when sent to a son of Galileo she produced a filly called Neesan and the extremely promising Waardah is her second foal by the Dubawi sire Postponed. Look at the pedigree of Waardah and there are no duplications in the first four generations. The only duplication in the 5th generation is to Mr Prospector, so no multiple lines of Northern Dancer as there often is. Why didn't Ballymacoll use Green Desert more than once, why didn't they send Hellenic to Red Ransom (they sent her daughter) and why not send Hellenic to Rainbow's Quest for example.

    I have my theory but answers on a postcard.
     
    #272
  13. Tamerlo

    Tamerlo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,211
    Likes Received:
    928
    Bustino, good morning.
    Didn’t Michael Sobell own Hellenic and wasn’t she related to Reform? But don’t ask me how!
     
    #273
  14. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    5,260
    Likes Received:
    2,062
    Not sure when Sobell died. Up until he did die nearly all of the Ballymacoll horses ran in his colours, with him owning 2/3 and Arnold Weistock (his son in law) owning the rest.
    Reform's dam was Hellenic's 4th dam. Hellenic's 3rd dam was a full-sister to Reform.
     
    #274
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2025 at 6:14 PM
  15. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    5,260
    Likes Received:
    2,062
    He died in 1993, so owned Hellenic until she was a 6yo. In 1993 Desert Beauty was conceived though I have no idea who planned the matings of the Ballymacoll mares at that stage. On his death all his horses became the property of his son-in-law and continued to run in the Sobell colours.
     
    #275

Share This Page