WAR! What is it good for?

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Welshie said:
I don't see how Starmers approach is something that would result in perpetual war at all tbph

How is a peace deal with the US supported by European peace keeping forces in anyway a suggestion from Starmer that he wants the war to never end?

A big criticism I have of the Trump "plan" is it is entirely reliant on "Putin likes me" which gives you absolutely no support after Trump is no longer President. The US President is such a narcissist he cannot grasp he will one day not be in place and the war can just resume.
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Broadly I don't support Starmer's plan because of exactly the same points you've made about Trump.

"Coalition of the willing", well what happens when just a few key members (i.e. any two of France, Germany, us and the USA) become 'unwilling' to keep boots and equipment on the ground and pour billions a year into the upkeep and maintenance of the above?

It's just as tenuous and beyond that is just an extremely long-winded and expensive way of avoiding accepting the Ukraine into the EU or NATO, which would have the same end result and would create a protection legacy that would outlast any individual government and its policies.

This is the hypocrisy I cannot stomach. If Ukraine is a valued ally like we keep hearing, accept it into the EU or NATO. And if it isn't a valued ally, why get involved on its behalf at all?

Which brings us to the only logical conclusion which is that for all the flag waving and state dinners, this government and its predecessor don't give a toss about Ukraine. They are just a puppet being used to posture against Russia which has been the real aim all along. No one is interested in 'saving' Ukraine. They just want to stop Russia.
 
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Big Ern said:
Why would The Royal Signals use morse code instead of encrypted communications?
Thick ****.
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Encrypted messages in morse code ?

I watched the imitation game, was disappointed it didn’t have Bruce Forsyth in it to be fair.
 
Big Ern said:
Why would The Royal Signals use morse code instead of encrypted communications?
Thick ****.
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Wow<laugh><doh>


Thought you had a life or something to get to smarty pants who seemingly has no concept of a joke <laugh>
 
PISKIE said:
I think the point that's often overlooked here is that Ukrainians want to fight for their country, because it is an existential threat for them

I could make the same point about Palestinians too, but I won't :bandit:
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You could, but it would be horribly wrong.

Ukrainians are overwhelmingly fighting on fields of battle against other standing armies. They aren't deliberately going village to village massacring civilians and deliberately avoiding any engagement with actual soldiers.
 
PISKIE said:
I think the point that's often overlooked here is that Ukrainians want to fight for their country, because it is an existential threat for them

I could make the same point about Palestinians too, but I won't :bandit:

Far from the accusation that people here are Warmongers for supporting that, it's about supporting their right to defend their country.
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Oh righto.

So when was you last in Ukraine talking to the soldiers then bro?

Why didn't you stay and join the fight? <laugh>
 
Citizen Kane. said:
You could, but it would be horribly wrong.

Ukrainians are overwhelmingly fighting on fields of battle against other standing armies. They aren't deliberately going village to village massacring civilians and deliberately avoiding any engagement with actual soldiers.
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A bit like dropping thousands of tons of armaments on Gaza and slaughtering 50,000 civilians you mean ?
 
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Citizen Kane. said:
Broadly I don't support Starmer's plan because of exactly the same points you've made about Trump.

"Coalition of the willing", well what happens when just a few key members (i.e. any two of France, Germany, us and the USA) become 'unwilling' to keep boots and equipment on the ground and pour billions a year into the upkeep and maintenance of the above?

It's just as tenuous and beyond that is just an extremely long-winded and expensive way of avoiding accepting the Ukraine into the EU or NATO, which would have the same end result and would create a protection legacy that would outlast any individual government and its policies.

This is the hypocrisy I cannot stomach. If Ukraine is a valued ally like we keep hearing, accept it into the EU or NATO. And if it isn't a valued ally, why get involved on its behalf at all?

Which brings us to the only logical conclusion which is that for all the flag waving and state dinners, this government and its predecessor don't give a toss about Ukraine. They are just a puppet being used to posture against Russia which has been the real aim all along. No one is interested in 'saving' Ukraine. They just want to stop Russia.
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But then you are dismissing the other side of the table, for any negotiations to take place we need first and foremost for Russia to engage.

A big red line for the Russians is Ukraine cannot be permitted to join NATO.

The only nation who are proposing even a 10-15 year break in hostilities right now is the United Kingdom with this coalition proposal, Ukraine are genuinely hoping that US mining companies being in Ukraine will be enough for a deterrent. I don't think it's enough at all.

I think strengthening European defence and having troop placements is as of right now the only compromise on the table.

According to Trump, it's the only thing Putin is even considering accepting.
 
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Sucky said:
Oh righto.

So when was you last in Ukraine talking to the soldiers then bro?

Why didn't you stay and join the fight? <laugh>
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Was listening to a prog on Radio 4 yesterday bro where they were talking to soldiers in Ukraine

You should listen to what they have to say mate, rather than what International Knights Templar are telling ya <laugh>
 
PISKIE said:
Was listening to a prog on Radio 4 yesterday bro where they were talking to soldiers in Ukraine

You should listen to what they have to say mate, rather than what International Knights Templar are telling ya <laugh>
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The International Knight Templars won't appreciate Suckys opinion on Catholic wife beaters
 
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PISKIE said:
Was listening to a prog on Radio 4 yesterday bro where they were talking to soldiers in Ukraine

You should listen to what they have to say mate, rather than what International Knights Templar are telling ya <laugh>
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I've seen enough clips from soldiers saying they've had enough, that they are tired of this war.

Why do think they are snatching men off the street ffs<laugh>
 
Sucky said:
I've seen enough clips from soldiers saying they've had enough, that they are tired of this war.

Why do think they are snatching men off the street ffs<laugh>
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I've no doubt some are bro
 
PISKIE said:
A bit like dropping thousands of tons of armaments on Gaza and slaughtering 50,000 civilians you mean ?
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Nothing like that at all, no.

It would be similar if warning messages were sent an hour earlier to the Nova festival ordering the youngsters dancing there to move to a designated evacuation zone.
 
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