Zambrano still banned

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Can the notion that any long form discussion is automatically an argument be binned off? One of the more well reasoned, rational discussions on here with both sides respectful of the others opinion. In fact the exact sort of discussion/debate there should be more of.

You missed the bit that said you have to be there in person to see how good he is.
 
OK. I'm not having a pop, I'm just talking about it on an emotional level, similar to some bands. I listened to hours of Placebo and not really got them but seeing them live changed everything. Maybe a bit more of an extreme example but I feel as though the point still stands. I was absolutely wowed by Alzate in the first half of the Stoke match.
Sorry I meant it pops up as a discussion point not that you're having a pop. I think there's definitely pros and cons to both. The benefit of replays is big but you miss the off the ball stuff a lot.
 
Teams promoted to the Premier League have often hoovered up talent from the Championship as they go up - most notably Ipswich last summer but there are other examples (eg Hamer to Sheffield Utd).

it’s reasonable that Alzate might be in that market this summer, if his form continues along current lines.

Put it this way, who is a better player in his position right now? Ampadu yes, perhaps Cullen, conceivably Grimes and Field - there aren’t many. He would fit right in at Boro if they went up, now Howson is less prominent.
 
I would think any side promoted that is genuine about staying there (and isn't just amassing Championship talent in the event of their inevitable relegation) will be aiming higher. Leeds, for instance, wouldn't be looking at him, but I don't disagree that a Boro/Sunderland may well look at him as a way to stockpile talent for when they go back down. I struggle to associate newly promoted clubs with other PL clubs, such is the chasm between the two leagues as things stand.
 
Sorry I meant it pops up as a discussion point not that you're having a pop. I think there's definitely pros and cons to both. The benefit of replays is big but you miss the off the ball stuff a lot.
Of course. I'm not really getting into pros and cons of either medium though, just that my opinion of a player may impacted significantly by my level of wonder, or indeed, frustration, when experiencing them in a live setting.
 
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I would think any side promoted that is genuine about staying there (and isn't just amassing Championship talent in the event of their inevitable relegation) will be aiming higher. Leeds, for instance, wouldn't be looking at him, but I don't disagree that a Boro/Sunderland may well look at him as a way to stockpile talent for when they go back down. I struggle to associate newly promoted clubs with other PL clubs, such is the chasm between the two leagues as things stand.
I don’t think he does enough to dominate a game personally
It’s a role you can coast in
 
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I don’t think he does enough to dominate a game personally
It’s a role you can coast in

Has he got any assists or goals yet? For all his ability he hasn't really threaded any passes through for a winger/striker. His set pieces are generally quite poor too.
 
I don’t think he does enough to dominate a game personally
It’s a role you can coast in
I think he has dominated several games recently, that’s why he is in the conversation. Sheffield United for sure, he bossed it. Was less good against Stoke though.
 
I think he has dominated several games recently, that’s why he is in the conversation. Sheffield United for sure, he bossed it. Was less good against Stoke though.

Were you there? I'm not asking facetiously, just interesting that OTL thought he was very good against Stoke, so perhaps underlines how just being there in person doesn't even mean you can form a consistent opinion on a player. At the end of the day opinions are just that.
 
Were you there? I'm not asking facetiously, just interesting that OTL thought he was very good against Stoke, so perhaps underlines how just being there in person doesn't even mean you can form a consistent opinion on a player. At the end of the day opinions are just that.
Different people have different opinions while watching the same match, yes.
 
Different people have different opinions while watching the same match, yes.

Yes, that's my point. It has been suggested that watching a match live gives a clearer opinion of a player, I'm pointing out that in fact, people can watch live and have different opinions too.
 
Were you there? I'm not asking facetiously, just interesting that OTL thought he was very good against Stoke, so perhaps underlines how just being there in person doesn't even mean you can form a consistent opinion on a player. At the end of the day opinions are just that.
Overall, it wasn't his best. He made a lot of mistakes second half, and didn't seem at it, which is why I specified the first.
 
I don’t think he does enough to dominate a game personally
It’s a role you can coast in

He's our most creative player but he's playing as the deepest midfielder in a three-man midfield because he also happens to be the best defensive midfielder available.

This isn't me knocking Crooks or Matazo as I rate both but if we signed only one of them and then got a proper imposing number 6 instead who is decent on the ball but excels defensively, we could've pushed Alzate further up as one of the number 8s and allow him to be creative further forward.

We've got out most technically-gifted and creative midfielder sitting deep and he is expected to break up play off the ball and the two box-to-box midfielders ahead of him do the running and pressing but there's still not a creative player in the final third who can unlock a tough defence. Maybe that's why Pedro drops deep so much himself. Slater works hard but panics in crucial moments whether it's a pass or shot. Puerta's a bit more composed in those situations he's not exactly a playmaker either.
 
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He's our most creative player but he's playing as the deepest midfielder in a three-man midfield because he also happens to be the best defensive midfielder available.

This isn't me knocking Crooks or Matazo as I rate both but if we signed only one of them and then got a proper imposing number 6 instead who is decent on the ball but excels defensively, we could've pushed Alzate further up as one of the number 8s and allow him to be creative further forward.

We've got out most technically-gifted and creative midfielder sitting deep and he is expected to break up play off the ball and the two box-to-box midfielders ahead of him do the running and pressing but there's still not a creative player in the final third who can unlock a tough defence. Maybe that's why Pedro drops deep so much himself. Slater works hard but panics in crucial moments whether it's a pass or shot. Puerta's a bit more composed in those situations he's not exactly a playmaker either.

To bring it back to the subject of this thread, I wonder if once Zambrano's back we would free Alzate more to push forward next to Matazo or Crooks.
 
Yes, that's my point. It has been suggested that watching a match live gives a clearer opinion of a player, I'm pointing out that in fact, people can watch live and have different opinions too.

I'm pretty sure the bloke behind me isn't going to stop slagging off Kamara, even if he scores a hattrick every game.
 
So you're saying he trained with one of the weakest PL sides who are signing a high volume of players and they passed on him? But that in the summer PL clubs will be after him?
Because he wasn’t guaranteed game time, we were in summer an ambitious move for players given last season. So he opted for us over a poor premier league team. He’s stood out in pretty much every game, even when he’s not upto his usual standards he still completely dictates our tempo
 
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