Walter Out

[Gone For A Walk]

Isn't all of this Walter's job to sort out though?

I agree with you that the squad doesn't have as many goals in it as last season - but we aren't really doing anything to try and increase the number of chances to improve our goals scored? Walter gets praised for having spells and halves of football like the first half against Portsmouth or the last 15 against Luton - but the reality is we aren't good enough across a whole 90 to justify getting 3 points. We waste so much time in games where we don't even look like having a shot on target never mind a goal.

i.e the bigger problem in my eyes is a lack of consistent attacking threat rather than a failure to convert chances in patches of games.

That's on the manager and the manager alone. You can only bemoan missing the odd chance for so long.

It's partly on him to sort out, but he can only use what he's got.
The simple FACT is the squad is full of players that have no track record of scoring goals. There's some talent and promise for sure, but not strengths in terms of scoring goals. It's not even that we "don't have as many goals in it as last season". It's so worryingly low that I would wager our squad of outfield players scored far less than any other team's squad last season. Teams typically have an attacker or two that have a decent record in the past season or two, plus a couple or more in midfield, plus defenders (particularly CB's) that weigh in with a few. We simply don't. That's the facts.

We have plenty of possession. We already get into some very promising positions. We have plenty of set pieces. We just don't have players that are actually that good at scoring, right across the park, be they attackers, midfielders or defenders. Even our CF has only managed 6 in 53 league games, and he's nearly 3 years older since he scored 4 of those. Other factors come into play of course, like Walter's unnecessary complexities, but the main issue really is as simple as that.

 

[GEvans76]

We will need someone experienced who can keep us in this league, are we going to be an attractive proposition by the time Walter goes if he does go which I can’t see happening in 2024.

 

[HullCityInEurope]

We wanted Steve Cooper at the start of the season…

 

[springtiger]

As my golf was off I had to decorate for 5-1/2 hours so have time to think on Omur ‘s selection and Palmer non selection . I decide that Omur like Puerta and Drameh etc get in because they can and do move dynamically way more than Palmer . You never see Palmer running with anything like a short burst , real determination I think he likes to play a safe link game on the edge of the oppo’s box . Tim’s style is to be dynamic so if the player doesnt fit the bill they
won’t get in. Time to watch footie now

 

[Drew]

It's partly on him to sort out, but he can only use what he's got.
The simple FACT is the squad is full of players that have no track record of scoring goals. There's some talent and promise for sure, but not strengths in terms of scoring goals. It's not even that we "don't have as many goals in it as last season". It's so worryingly low that I would wager our squad of outfield players scored far less than any other team's squad last season. Teams typically have an attacker or two that have a decent record in the past season or two, plus a couple or more in midfield, plus defenders (particularly CB's) that weigh in with a few. We simply don't. That's the facts.

We have plenty of possession. We already get into some very promising positions. We have plenty of set pieces. We just don't have players that are actually that good at scoring, right across the park, be they attackers, midfielders or defenders. Even our CF has only managed 6 in 53 league games, and he's nearly 3 years older since he scored 4 of those. Other factors come into play of course, like Walter's unnecessary complexities, but the main issue really is as simple as that.

I guess the question is though - are we not creating as many chances because we are so wedded to a system that’s not working?

Do we need to actually look at what we’ve got available and change how we play to fix it?

 

[Gone For A Walk]

I guess the question is though - are we not creating as many chances because we are so wedded to a system that’s not working?

Do we need to actually look at what we’ve got available and change how we play to fix it?

Yeah partly. Always said a good manager adapts to get the best out of what he's got available (rather than a fixation on a unique philosophy for example).
BUT, the squad will still be the squad even if the system changes. Our starting 11's, no matter how he sets us up to play, will still only have around 30 odd goals a season in it!! We just don't have goals in the squad, that's what has been created. Roll on January and hopefully somebody in the 'brains team' (ha ha) realises it.

 

[TheCompositor]

I guess the question is though - are we not creating as many chances because we are so wedded to a system that’s not working?

Do we need to actually look at what we’ve got available and change how we play to fix it?

Yes.

 

[Drew]

Yeah partly. Always said a good manager adapts to get the best out of what he's got available (rather than a fixation on a unique philosophy for example).
BUT, the squad will still be the squad even if the system changes. Our starting 11's, no matter how he sets us up to play, will still only have around 30 odd goals a season in it!! We just don't have goals in the squad, that's what has been created. Roll on January and hopefully somebody in the 'brains team' (ha ha) realises it.

I still think we should be doing better than we are.

I’ve yet to be truly impressed by any teams in the league - and that makes this season even more frustrating so far.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

I still think we should be doing better than we are.

I’ve yet to be truly impressed by any teams in the league - and that makes this season even more frustrating so far.

In some respects I agree, particularly with the 2nd sentence, but given the simple data I've put together, we're seeing pretty much what you'd expect (far too few goals for).

 

[Drew]

In some respects I agree, particularly with the 2nd sentence, but given the simple data I've put together, we're seeing pretty much what you'd expect (far too few goals for).

Worth remembering that Jaden, Carvalho, Delap and Connolly barely had double digits between them the season before they joined us though.

 

[Idi Amin]

Cooper IN!!!!!

 

[Idi Amin]

And still lost in them so who ****ing cares.

We will never know.

 

[PLT]

It's partly on him to sort out, but he can only use what he's got.
The simple FACT is the squad is full of players that have no track record of scoring goals. There's some talent and promise for sure, but not strengths in terms of scoring goals. It's not even that we "don't have as many goals in it as last season". It's so worryingly low that I would wager our squad of outfield players scored far less than any other team's squad last season. Teams typically have an attacker or two that have a decent record in the past season or two, plus a couple or more in midfield, plus defenders (particularly CB's) that weigh in with a few. We simply don't. That's the facts.

We have plenty of possession. We already get into some very promising positions. We have plenty of set pieces. We just don't have players that are actually that good at scoring, right across the park, be they attackers, midfielders or defenders. Even our CF has only managed 6 in 53 league games, and he's nearly 3 years older since he scored 4 of those. Other factors come into play of course, like Walter's unnecessary complexities, but the main issue really is as simple as that.

Since you seem to be quite invested in it, you should do this same exercise of looking at prior goal records but for last season's squad. Not many of them were prior proven scorers either, but we scored a decent amount.

 

[springtiger]

Players develop and come of age at different times , PNE were not overly impressed with Delap but we were , he was a year older . It’s often about getting a young player at the right time .

 

[originallambrettaman]

Since you seem to be quite invested in it, you should do this same exercise of looking at prior goal records but for last season's squad. Not many of them were prior proven scorers either, but we scored a decent amount.

Delap 3 in 22 at Stoke and 1 in 17 at Preston, Philogene 4 in 37 at Cardiff, Connolly 0 in 5 at Venezia before scoring 2 in 5 for us, Tufan scored 0 in 7 at Watford before coming to us, they all had poor stats until they were blessed by the hand of Rosie.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

Worth remembering that Jaden, Carvalho, Delap and Connolly barely had double digits between them the season before they joined us though.

Yep. I touched on that (with Delap as the example).
So, where is this season's Jaden, Carvalho, Delap and Connolly?
Arguably Belloumi, Millar and Kamara. Although all 3 are wide players (v's Carvalho, Delap & Connolly).Belloiumi was new to English football. And we've lost Belloumi and Millar anyway.
We just don't have that calibre of developing player in attacking positions, and we just don't have goals across the squad. It really is simple.
Where exactly are our 60 70, 80 or more goals expected to come from (and I'm not just meaning the obvious shortcomings we have at CF, especially with 32 y.o Pedro's 6 in 53 league games across the last 3 years or so!!).

 

[NewcastleTiger]

.

 

[Drew]

Yep. I touched on that (with Delap as the example).
So, where is this season's Jaden, Carvalho, Delap and Connolly?
Arguably Belloumi, Millar and Kamara. Although all 3 are wide players (v's Carvalho, Delap & Connolly).Belloiumi was new to English football. And we've lost Belloumi and Millar anyway.
We just don't have that calibre of developing player in attacking positions, and we just don't have goals across the squad. It really is simple.
Where exactly are our 60 70, 80 or more goals expected to come from (and I'm not just meaning the obvious shortcomings we have at CF, especially with 32 y.o Pedro's 6 in 53 league games across the last 3 years or so!!).

But under a different manager - why couldn't that be Kamara, Bedia, Pedro, Mehlem and Omur (given we have lost Belloumi and Millar unexpectedly - I'd have them in there too).

They have no worse records than the previously mentioned players? How do we know they aren't being held back?

The short answer is - we don't unless the system changes or the manager changes. I just don't think its as simple as saying its not as good a squad as last season. We know about last season's squad with hindsight. This seasons squad is yet to be determined.

 

[NewcastleTiger]

Records mean diddly squat on young players. Philogene was pretty much a one man attack in the first half of the season when Delap played on the other wing. He’d pretty much try take his man on every time and would usually try score. He was phenomenal on his debut and I’d argue he lost part of his directness as the season went on as he was coached more. Much like many modern coaches, that level of individual brilliance in 1v1 situations is coached out in favour of keeping possession.

 

[TigerMarv]

Keep refreshing every 5 mins in hope/anticipation but still no Wally done one thread