Walter Out

[Sir Cheshire Ben]

But it's been 5 games and the players are literally strangers to each other

That’s just not right. 7 players have started all 5 league games. 2 others started the first 4 & came on as a sub in the last. Most of these 9 were involved in all pre-season games & a few have played some part in all 12 games.

You can’t pretend they’re strangers when they’re not.

They're playing like they’re strangers but that’s because of poor leadership, coaching & tactics,

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Just watched the highlights back on their YouTube channel, so more likely to show their chances, and they showed two regulation saves. I just remember that game for having very little action at either end and they certainly didn't "hammer us all game".

The 2 minute highlights? What did you expect them to show in 2 minutes to support or disagree with your point? It's clearly a very brief snapshot of the game. All I can tell you is the facts, Pandur made 5 saves for the game which is a high number for a keeper and as a result he was considered our best player on the pitch for doing so well. To suggest we have a decent defence because we 'got away with it' and didn't concede is shortsighted.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

That’s just not right. 7 players have started all 5 league games. 2 others started the first 4 & came on as a sub in the last. Most of these 9 were involved in all pre-season games & a few have played some part in all 12 games.

You can’t pretend they’re strangers when they’re not.

They're playing like they’re strangers but that’s because of poor leadership, coaching & tactics,

This constant insistence that we have a team of strangers is just such a strange excuse. It wasn't used when Rosenior threw Zaroury, Carvalho, Giles and Sharp on the pitch against Rotherham and we managed to win 2-1, four players we'd signed in only the previous couple of weeks. It wasn't used when Shota played Figueiredo, Seri, Tufan and Oscar together when we beat Bristol City 2-1 on the opening day of the 22/23 season who had only just been signed and thrown together, and yet playing Belloumi and Kamara, the only completely new players (who had just had an International Break spent with the team), is somehow making us a team of strangers.

Fact is that Pandur, Coyle, Jones, McLoughlin, Giles, Omur were all with us last season with 5 of those playing games for us last season, and Mehlem and Burns have been with us for quite a while now, relatively speaking. Even Bedia has been here for what, 3-4 weeks now? How long do players need to no longer be strangers?

 

[Sir Cheshire Ben]

This constant insistence that we have a team of strangers is just such a strange excuse. It wasn't used when Rosenior threw Zaroury, Carvalho, Giles and Sharp on the pitch against Rotherham and we managed to win 2-1, four players we'd signed in only the previous couple of weeks. It wasn't used when Shota played Figueiredo, Seri, Tufan and Oscar together when we beat Bristol City 2-1 on the opening day of the 22/23 season who had only just been signed and thrown together, and yet playing Belloumi and Kamara, the only completely new players (who had just had an International Break spent with the team), is somehow making us a team of strangers.

Fact is that Pandur, Coyle, Jones, McLoughlin, Giles, Omur were all with us last season with 5 of those playing games for us last season, and Mehlem and Burns have been with us for quite a while now, relatively speaking. Even Bedia has been here for what, 3-4 weeks now? How long do players need to no longer be strangers?

Slater in there too.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Slater in there too.

Good shout, I was just going off who started, but yes Slater too.

 

[willyfog]

For all that he was another level he still won 6 games to finish the season and had us scoring with somewhat regularity.

I think he was a well like guy and I’m sure the players played for him. I remember watching a game with on Sky and they struggled to analyse us as they couldn’t see any pattern to our play.

The same could be said for Tim at the moment, but with all the new additions we do need to give him a bit of time.

We’ve not seen Rushworth, Hughes, Puerta and Alzate at all and barely seen Palmer, Kamara and Belloumi…how can we fully judge him until he’s had a chance to mould these guys together.

We just need a win.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

I think he was a well like guy and I’m sure the players played for him. I remember watching a game with on Sky and they struggled to analyse us as they couldn’t see any pattern to our play.

The same could be said for Tim at the moment, but with all the new additions we do need to give him a bit of time.

We’ve not seen Rushworth, Hughes, Puerta and Alzate at all and barely seen Palmer, Kamara and Belloumi…how can we fully judge him until he’s had a chance to mould these guys together.

We just need a win.

I agree that it's harsh to judge him when there's players who haven't even played, which is why all we can go off is his comments. It's why the other day I suggested the result itself wasn't the red flag so much as him saying he was happy with the performance, doesn't believe we need to tighten up defensively at corners, and doesn't see any issues with how we played beyond two mistakes. If that's genuine, then that should send alarm bells because it suggests even if we see other personnel taking to the pitch we won't see any change in the nature of the performances.

If he's just saying he's happy to 'protect the players' then someone needs to have a word with him about how better to express what he's trying to say as it's doing him no favours.

 

[Kalman II]

The 2 minute highlights? What did you expect them to show in 2 minutes to support or disagree with your point? It's clearly a very brief snapshot of the game. All I can tell you is the facts, Pandur made 5 saves for the game which is a high number for a keeper and as a result he was considered our best player on the pitch for doing so well. To suggest we have a decent defence because we 'got away with it' and didn't concede is shortsighted.

People said we had a good defence last season because we conceded few goals. The reality was that we were susceptible to counter-attacks due to the piss-weak midfield and depended on last-ditch defending from the likes of Greaves.

The midfield doesn’t seem to be sorted yet this season either. Walter’s tried Simons, Zambrano and Burns as defensive mids and he’s not settled on one yet. Burns was the most bizarre selection against Sheffield United. He lacks composure on the ball and mobility but I was surprised at how he got bullied since he’s a big lad. Hopefully, Zambrano or Alzate are the answer.

 

[willyfog]

We heard from German experts prior to the season that Tim had a dislike for the media. I’m hoping his prickly answers denying any problems is just bluster.

I would sincerely hope that the analysis after the game looks at how the oppositions chances arose, and we’re our lack of creativity stemmed from. I would then hope tactical tweaks/clearer information is put in place to both reduce the chances we give up and increase the chances we might create.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

People said we had a good defence last season because we conceded few goals. The reality was that we were susceptible to counter-attacks due to the piss-weak midfield and depended on last-ditch defending from the likes of Greaves.

The midfield doesn’t seem to be sorted yet this season either. Walter’s tried Simons, Zambrano and Burns as defensive mids and he’s not settled on one yet. Burns was the most bizarre selection against Sheffield United. He lacks composure on the ball and mobility but I was surprised at how he got bullied since he’s a big lad. Hopefully, Zambrano or Alzate are the answer.

Because people keep bringing up last season, let's be clear: last season was not perfect. There was a lot of mistakes and learning points throughout the season. One really good learning point I can remember being put into practice somewhat is the fact we were regularly bullied and the brunt of cynical fouls through a chunk of the season, and towards the end of the season (the specific game(s) have gone out of my head) we had a few performances where we copped cynical yellows and broke up the opposition's pace of play. We had a rookie coach who was learning as he went and a very young side. No one is trying to pretend anything other than that. What typically happens with a very young side is that it takes a while for them to get to grips with not just a full season of senior football, but the demands of pushing for promotion. It's why you can see a side like Sunderland who have had two seasons of inconsistent results suddenly starting to click and put it all together - and even then they just lost 3-2 to Plymouth in a result you wouldn't have expected of them!

No side is perfect, and those saying that they couldn't see Rosenior getting us promoted, or pointing out all the flaws in our games last season seem to be missing that point. To expect Rosenior to have taken a side that finished 13th, overhauled its attack, and brought in a lot of young players to promotion was a big ask, and he very nearly made the play offs. Only a few results had to be different over a 46 game season and we would have made the top 6. The way people carry on about our post-January form you'd have thought we finished 12th not 7th.

The difference this season is we've seemingly brought in a more senior and more experienced manager who was expected to provide us with an attacking, exciting gameplan from the get go (transfer window delays aside) and yet we've scored one goal from open play that was despite our tactics not because of them. As Baz said, if we were having repeated attacking plays that just weren't coming to anything you sit there and say 'Ok we're not scoring but I can see what he's trying to do and I'm sure it'll click soon' but there's just no pattern of anything and no one can figure out what we're trying to do. We're getting Coyle and McLoughlin to walk the ball up the field only to turn it over, or passing it around at the back for 15 consecutive passes and then just passing it up to an opposition player to start again. There's no rationale to anything we're trying to do at the moment. Walter is showing no inkling of learning from his mistakes.

 

[willyfog]

Apart from leaving ourselves wide open all the time, my other big wonder is why, when our movement around at the back is successful that we end up with Macca well up the field with the ball at his feet. In what world would that be of any concern to the opposition.

 

[willyfog]

The problem under Rosenior was that the players first thought was ‘where’s my safe option’.

Under Walter the issue is that the players first thought is ‘where do I run to next?’

 

[SydneyTiger14]

The problem under Rosenior was that the players first thought was ‘where’s my safe option’.

Under Walter the issue is that the players first thought is ‘where do I run to next?’

My concern as well is that Walter wants them to take risk but then blows his lid on the sideline when they make a mistake. What player wants to take a risk if that's going to be the reaction of their manager?

 

[willyfog]

My concern as well is that Walter wants them to take risk but then blows his lid on the sideline when they make a mistake. What player wants to take a risk if that's going to be the reaction of their manager?

Yeah, I’ve been a bit surprised at that. We were told before he arrived that he was well liked by the players at Hamburg and they enjoyed playing for him.

Perhaps the lack of a win pre-season and now into the season on top of a stressful transfer window is taking its toll pressure-wise.

 

[Benjo]

That’s just not right. 7 players have started all 5 league games. 2 others started the first 4 & came on as a sub in the last. Most of these 9 were involved in all pre-season games & a few have played some part in all 12 games.

You can’t pretend they’re strangers when they’re not.

They're playing like they’re strangers but that’s because of poor leadership, coaching & tactics,

It's been 5 ****ing games We famously did most of our business too late and the window ended a sniff over two weeks ago...

 

[Brucebones]

It's been 5 ****ing games We famously did most of our business too late and the window ended a sniff over two weeks ago...

I’m bored with this thread, Syd just answers everyone with the same thing, worded slightly differently.
This thread should be renamed, “Syd wants Walter out, don’t try to say it’s only been 5 games & half the players haven’t even started or been in the squad, because sure enough, Syd’s opinion will somehow turn it into Walter’s fault!”

 

[Sir Cheshire Ben]

It's been 5 ****ing games We famously did most of our business too late and the window ended a sniff over two weeks ago...

It’s been 12 games

The team in every game has been more or less the same. Many of them also played together many times last season.

They are not strangers to each other. They are playing like strangers because the manager is ****, inept, clueless & out of his depth.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

I’m bored with this thread, Syd just answers everyone with the same thing, worded slightly differently.
This thread should be renamed, “Syd wants Walter out, don’t try to say it’s only been 5 games & half the players haven’t even started or been in the squad, because sure enough, Syd’s opinion will somehow turn it into Walter’s fault!”

Except I don't want him out just yet? What a strange post. Am I the only one criticising Walter? I must have missed the other 5-10 posters in this thread along with the 1904 Club and THAB lads.

 

[NewcastleTiger]

We really weren't. Millwall hammered us all game but Pandur had a blinder.

xG suggests different. They had set pieces that was it

 

[SydneyTiger14]

xG suggests different. They had set pieces that was it

xG never tells the full story. We were told all of last season that xG for a single game is almost unuseable but now seem to be using it to defend a poor performance. Almost our entire xG from that game came from Burstow's effort and Slater's follow up. Outside of that we offered nothing and they definitely had more than just set pieces.

Without getting bogged down on that particular game, the broader point is I think we've been fortunate to concede as few as we have, not unlucky to have conceded as many as we have.