General Election 4th July ...

[Saf]

It’s just been on the BBC that the public interest/concern about Brexit is at its lowest since 2015.

It’s just this board that needs to come to terms with it by the sounds of it.

 

[Grizzled Wanderer]

Not sure why Starmer would try to reignite the trans debate that burned him so badly last time with ten days to go.

 

[Smug in Boots]

There's been suggestions Sunak has deliberately engineered a situation where he knows he'll lose the election ...

... after the way he's handled the latest scandal you wouldn't bet against it.

Our PM and other ministers keep saying they're unable to suspend their own members, most likely criminals, who've cheated the bookies and only thought about the money they'd make. They're trying to con people into believing that their hands are completely tied because there's a gambling commission enquiry

It's so patronising that they think we're all so ignorant and brainless.

In the midst of a General Election we're expected to believe our government has to defer to the bookies. They think the electorate should vote for their candidates not knowing if they're being investigated or guilty of a criminal offence. There's nothing to stop these people being suspended ...

... I'm starting to believe Sunak, like Boris Johnson, just didn't have any interest in doing the job once he'd got it.

Thankfully him and his 'integrity' will soon be gone.

 

[FellTop]

Listened to Streeting this morning. Important issue of NHS Dentist Contracts and he is promising to negotiate with the union on Day 1. Good, it is needed. Then, sadly entirely predictably, when as how it would be funded he said non dom loopholes and tax avoiders. This non dom thing is like some kind of fairy tale magic money tree that will keep on giving you money whenever you ask.

The IFS will report today that the manifestos of the main parties are not fully costed. In other words they are unachievable unless taxes are raised or costs reduced somewhere not yet stated by the political parties. They will also report that manifestos like the Greens or Reforms are even more unable to be delivered upon.

This was an election campaign with a real opportunity for honesty for everyone other than the tories. Whatever policies they have, they have made themselves unelectable thanks to their behaviour. We could have had manifestos that were meaningful and achievable and then had a govt who ended up doing what they said they were going to do. Instead we have the same old same old.

I wonder if it would be beneficial to have a system where manifestos need to be approved by an independant body like the IFS before they can be published and become the basis upon which people cast thier vote?

 

[Smug in Boots]

Listened to Streeting this morning. Important issue of NHS Dentist Contracts and he is promising to negotiate with the union on Day 1. Good, it is needed. Then, sadly entirely predictably, when as how it would be funded he said non dom loopholes and tax avoiders. This non dom thing is like some kind of fairy tale magic money tree that will keep on giving you money whenever you ask.

The IFS will report today that the manifestos of the main parties are not fully costed. In other words they are unachievable unless taxes are raised or costs reduced somewhere not yet stated by the political parties. They will also report that manifestos like the Greens or Reforms are even more unable to be delivered upon.

This was an election campaign with a real opportunity for honesty for everyone other than the tories. Whatever policies they have, they have made themselves unelectable thanks to their behaviour. We could have had manifestos that were meaningful and achievable and then had a govt who ended up doing what they said they were going to do. Instead we have the same old same old.

I wonder if it would be beneficial to have a system where manifestos need to be approved by an independant body like the IFS before they can be published and become the basis upon which people cast thier vote?

This is politics mate, no point expecting openess and honesty.

Whenever there's an election people start asking for a change in the elecrorial systems, etc.

Personally I don't care how Labour save our dentists or cut NHS waiting lists even if it costs me directly, it's scandalous.

There's limited ways to get money in no matter which party is in power ...

... in that respect there's not much difference.

It's how they choose to use that money that counts.

 

[Saf]

Listened to Streeting this morning. Important issue of NHS Dentist Contracts and he is promising to negotiate with the union on Day 1. Good, it is needed. Then, sadly entirely predictably, when as how it would be funded he said non dom loopholes and tax avoiders. This non dom thing is like some kind of fairy tale magic money tree that will keep on giving you money whenever you ask.

The IFS will report today that the manifestos of the main parties are not fully costed. In other words they are unachievable unless taxes are raised or costs reduced somewhere not yet stated by the political parties. They will also report that manifestos like the Greens or Reforms are even more unable to be delivered upon.

This was an election campaign with a real opportunity for honesty for everyone other than the tories. Whatever policies they have, they have made themselves unelectable thanks to their behaviour. We could have had manifestos that were meaningful and achievable and then had a govt who ended up doing what they said they were going to do. Instead we have the same old same old.

I wonder if it would be beneficial to have a system where manifestos need to be approved by an independant body like the IFS before they can be published and become the basis upon which people cast thier vote?

That bottom paragraph

I’ve never heard that idea before but I think it’s great. If you want to stand for election prove that you have the capabilities to do so and you aren’t just trying to hoodwink the public and rope them in with empty promises.

 

[Smug in Boots]

The. Police have not only suspended their member for placing a bet they've arrested him ...

... yet the Tories claim there's nothing they can do until the bookies decide who's guilty.

What a bunch of liars

 

[Coastal Dolphins]

There's limited ways to get money in no matter which party is in power ...

... in that respect there's not much difference.

It's how they choose to use that money that counts.

Absolutely spot on.
Tories have decimated public services yet the mega wealthiest in society have massively benefitted.

 

[FellTop]

This is politics mate, no point expecting openess and honesty.

Whenever there's an election people start asking for a change in the elecrorial systems, etc.

Personally I don't care how Labour save our dentists or cut NHS waiting lists even if it costs me directly, it's scandalous.

There's limited ways to get money in no matter which party is in power ...

... in that respect there's not much difference.

It's how they choose to use that money that counts.

Tbf, if that is the case, we can never expect change for the better.

Personally I am tired of long periods of tory incompetence, then long periods of labour incompetence, which is about all I can remember.

Lets stop saying this is politics, and seek ways to change it so it is more akin to what we actually need as citizens and a country. I am not talking about democracy either. Democracy is vital. Surely though choosing between parties who are unrealistic in their commitments is a bit of shambles.

I am happily naieve in this sense.

 

[Disco down under]

Why is it we spend such a disproportionate amount of time talking about anti-semitism?

There are under 300,000 Jewish people living in the UK, 0.5% of the population, there are far larger ethnic groups who face far more prejudice openly and otherwise. And yet the conversation always comes back to anti-semitism as though it is really damaging the country when to my mind, the general British person simply doesn't have Jewish people on their mind all that often.

I'm not saying Jewish people shouldn't have the same rights and consideration as everyone else, and I'm definitely not saying anti-semitism be condoned.

It just feels like a very staged and weaponised conversation to enrage and distract from other and perhaps more pertinent conversations.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Tbf, if that is the case, we can never expect change for the better.

Personally I am tired of long periods of tory incompetence, then long periods of labour incompetence, which is about all I can remember.

Lets stop saying this is politics, and seek ways to change it so it is more akin to what we actually need as citizens and a country. I am not talking about democracy either. Democracy is vital. Surely though choosing between parties who are unrealistic in their commitments is a bit of shambles.

I am happily naieve in this sense.

You're absolutely right of course ...

... sadly none of the alternatives would be any better.

They remind me of 'Why don't the supporters club together, buy out KLD and run it ourselves'.

Great idea followed by mass disagreement on Day One of the new regime.

 

[Evil Jimmy Krankie]

Why is it we spend such a disproportionate amount of time talking about anti-semitism?

There are under 300,000 Jewish people living in the UK, 0.5% of the population, there are far larger ethnic groups who face far more prejudice openly and otherwise. And yet the conversation always comes back to anti-semitism as though it is really damaging the country when to my mind, the general British person simply doesn't have Jewish people on their mind all that often.

I'm not saying Jewish people shouldn't have the same rights and consideration as everyone else, and I'm definitely not saying anti-semitism be condoned.

It just feels like a very staged and weaponised conversation to enrage and distract from other and perhaps more pertinent conversations.

Thing is, I don’t know of any one person or group, ethnic or otherwise, that doesn’t have the same rights as anyone else either in the UK or in our adopted country. What I have seen though is a number of individuals and groups demanding more rights than others.

 

[Montysoptician]

Thing is, I don’t know of any one person or group, ethnic or otherwise, that doesn’t have the same rights as anyone else either in the UK or in our adopted country. What I have seen though is a number of individuals and groups demanding more rights than others.

Spot on EJK

 

[alcoauth]

Why is it we spend such a disproportionate amount of time talking about anti-semitism?

There are under 300,000 Jewish people living in the UK, 0.5% of the population, there are far larger ethnic groups who face far more prejudice openly and otherwise. And yet the conversation always comes back to anti-semitism as though it is really damaging the country when to my mind, the general British person simply doesn't have Jewish people on their mind all that often.

I'm not saying Jewish people shouldn't have the same rights and consideration as everyone else, and I'm definitely not saying anti-semitism be condoned.

It just feels like a very staged and weaponised conversation to enrage and distract from other and perhaps more pertinent conversations.

I wrote this a few pages back, might be relevant:

This subject is probably the most complicated one.

This is how it seems to me:

From the left I believe the main driver (for negative sentiment towards Jews) is the subjugation of the Palestinians (brown people), which is absolutely valid, however because of the nature of the peoples involved it comes with the accusation of antisemitism, as a work around you get a sort of evasion where zionism and Jewishness is split in the leftist mind, so as to not be racist, and even just an outright tying of Israel to other colonialisms, conflating them as White ie "Israel is European settler colonialism", in a way obfuscating the Jewish role in favour of blaming Europeans which has little to no backlash.

On the right you have a different problem, you have right wing working class people siding with Israel because there is conflict in English towns between the indigenous population and Muslims, things like the grooming gangs and simple demographic shift amongst other points of tension, most of these people are sadly not that bright and side with Israel to sort of strike back against Muslims.

There is a third type which is neither left nor right which is an analysis of wealth and power in society, which probably more closely resembles what you have said here, that is a lot more complicated to get into.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Absolutely spot on.
Tories have decimated public services yet the mega wealthiest in society have massively benefitted.

Nothing is allowed to disrupt their lives, no matter how much the country suffers, and that's why people have had enough imo. They want these people, not only voted out but, given a massive slap across the face imo. There's nothing wrong with being in power, or being wealthy, until you openly flaunt it and laugh in people's faces ...

... there are people with money who have respect, class and compassion.

It's when people are suffering, and they can see there are those who not only told them they had to suffer but totally refuse to share that suffering, that they become angry. Like our PM and his pals laughing it up at parties, like Cummings taking a holiday in lockdown, like Hancock out cheating on his wife while we were confined to our homes. Then there's the likes of Liz Truss who's now laughing it up on her PM's pension while people struggle to pay for her mistakes. And the bankers who make billions then have to have us bail them out. Or those, like Boris, who conned people into Brexit by making insane promises about forty new hospitals, etc. Whichever proposals Labour puts up, none will come close to those.

I honestly believe Labour could put up illegal migrants as candidates and still win a massive majority ...

... this is no longer about manifestos, it's revenge

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

Nothing is allowed to disrupt their lives, no matter how much the country suffers, and that's why people have had enough imo. They want these people, not only voted out but, given a massive slap across the face imo. There's nothing wrong with being in power, or being wealthy, until you openly flaunt it and laugh in people's faces ...

... there are people with money who have respect, class and compassion.

It's when people are suffering, and they can see there are those who not only told them they had to suffer but totally refuse to share that suffering, that they become angry. Like our PM and his pals laughing it up at parties, like Cummings taking a holiday in lockdown, like Hancock out cheating on his wife while we were confined to our homes. Then there's the likes of Liz Truss who's now laughing it up on her PM's pension while people struggle to pay for her mistakes. And the bankers who make billions then have to have us bail them out. Or those, like Boris, who conned people into Brexit by making insane promises about forty new hospitals, etc. Whichever proposals Labour puts up, none will come close to those.

I honestly believe Labour could put up illegal migrants as candidates and still win a massive majority ...

... this is no longer about manifestos, it's revenge

And that’s the worrying thing. “Let’s sink the economy but as long as we’ve got the other entitled bunch who wear red instead of blue in charge it’s sound”

 

[Saf]

And that’s the worrying thing. “Let’s sink the economy but as long as we’ve got the other entitled bunch who wear red instead of blue in charge it’s sound”

The electorate are just as short on morals as the politicians we complain about it.

Most people will call out the ‘other sides’ politicians for racism, corruption or whatever it is. When it’s the politicians on ‘their side’ doing it, they’ll turn a blind eye to their behaviour.

That goes for virtually everyone on this thread.

 

[rooch 3]

The electorate are just as short on morals as the politicians we complain about it.

Most people will call out the ‘other sides’ politicians for racism, corruption or whatever it is. When it’s the politicians on ‘their side’ doing it, they’ll turn a blind eye to their behaviour.

That goes for virtually everyone on this thread.

I don’t have a side, so I’m pleased to say I am one of the virtual ones

 

[alcoauth]

The electorate are just as short on morals as the politicians we complain about it.

Most people will call out the ‘other sides’ politicians for racism, corruption or whatever it is. When it’s the politicians on ‘their side’ doing it, they’ll turn a blind eye to their behaviour.

That goes for virtually everyone on this thread.

There is definitely a team sports feel that runs through politics now more than ever.

 

[Grizzled Wanderer]

The electorate are just as short on morals as the politicians we complain about it.

Most people will call out the ‘other sides’ politicians for racism, corruption or whatever it is. When it’s the politicians on ‘their side’ doing it, they’ll turn a blind eye to their behaviour.

That goes for virtually everyone on this thread.

That's what causes the pearl clutching when anyone says both sides are as bad as each other.

When the tidal wave of influence money heads Labour's way they'll fill their boots just as much enthusiasm.