Off Topic Migrant crisis

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
I would have put this on the Migrant Crisis thread, but we no longer have one.

A thread that is, not a Migrant Crisis.

I wonder why this is considered to be the most important news story today by the BBC ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68470183

When at the same time we had 300 illegal immigrants arrive in the UK having presumably all accidentally misplaced their ID documents. And a 7 year old girl drowned in the channel trying to join them with her 3 siblings and pregnant mother. Just what our NHS and social services need.

But no let’s not have a discussion about that, let’s talk about a violent, self-harming criminal in the UK who regularly assaults female prison staff, so has to be restrained by male officers instead.

No bias here……move along there, nothing to see.
 
So desperate is Rishi Sunak to get a few refugees on a plane to Rwanda, the Government is now asking failed asylum seekers to volunteer, and will pay each one £3,000 plus a free one way ticket (economy class).

Apparently the scheme will be open only to people who cannot return to their own Country.
Which does beg the question - if somebody cannot return to their own country, why have they been refused asylum here?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68550404

I wonder if the number of people who volunteer for this will equal the number of asylum seekers who will be arriving in the UK from Rwanda under the terms of our deal with the Regime there.

Honestly, if somebody wrote this as a work of fiction critics would laugh at how ludicrous it is.
 
lardiman said:
So desperate is Rishi Sunak to get a few refugees on a plane to Rwanda, the Government is now asking failed asylum seekers to volunteer, and will pay each one £3,000 plus a free one way ticket (economy class).

Apparently the scheme will be open only to people who cannot return to their own Country.
Which does beg the question - if somebody cannot return to their own country, why have they been refused asylum here?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68550404

I wonder if the number of people who volunteer for this will equal the number of asylum seekers who will be arriving in the UK from Rwanda under the terms of our deal with the Regime there.

Honestly, if somebody wrote this as a work of fiction critics would laugh at how ludicrous it is.
Click to expand...
I might take him up on that ! Free holiday <laugh>
 
  • Like
Reactions: lardiman
lardiman said:
Satisfaction with the NHS has dropped to 24% among the general public.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68669866

In 2010 when the Coalition Government took over from Labour, public satisfaction was 70%.
I believe the Chancellor's long term aim of abolishing National Insurance is code for another policy; Privatising the NHS.
The state things are in now, going private is the only way people can get treatment.
A colleague of mine at work has had to buy private medical treatment. She is not wealthy, and she has paid her taxes and NI all her working life.
The situation is a disgusting scandal.
Click to expand...
Smudger603 said:
Private health care is just as ****e , all you do is jump the NHS queue, see the same doctors/ consultants and then very little after care unless you show the funds are in place !
Click to expand...
The Penguin said:
A common tale. Even getting a GP appointment is increasingly difficult. I tried this week first time for 3 years and have been referred to the physio (see how that goes), my wife got referred to the pharmacist, and the nurses do the prescription reviews now. Apparently the country is skint, at the same time as we're the world's 6th largest economy. So where is all the money going? There doesn't seem to be enough to fund any public services properly. Rishi and Jeremy tell us that this is the year the economy turns the corner. In other words Jam Tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Simply too many people that haven’t contributed, but now expect to get the same services as if they had.

I would have put this on the Migrant Crisis thread, but we don’t have one any more.

A thread that is, not a crisis.
 
Ubedizzy2 said:
Simply too many people that haven’t contributed, but now expect to get the same services as if they had.

I would have put this on the Migrant Crisis thread, but we don’t have one any more.

A thread that is, not a crisis.
Click to expand...

Not everything is the fault of migrants.
Without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago for lack of staff willing to work hard for low wages, as would all social care services.

The migrant "crisis" is miniscule compared with the massive issues around healthcare, housing, the inequalities between London/South East and the rest of the Country... 8 million able bodied people not working, 8 million sick and suffering people on NHS waiting lists etc. The list goes on and on.

The total number of people who crossed the Channel in small boats last year would not even fill Stamford Bridge football ground.
4,644 have arrived in the UK by small boat since January 1st 2024.
Even our pitiful attendance at the Valley is higher than that.

Compared to the tsunami of troubles facing millions and millions of poor and disadvantaged folk in the UK, the small boats issue is a tiny sideshow.
It is being cynically exploited, used as a distraction and blown out of all proportion by extremists and politicians on the right of the Conservative Party who damned well ought to know better.
Wasting £500 million on the risible Rwanda 'policy' (repulsive gimmick) is a disgraceful waste of taxpayers' money. Rishi Sunak should be ashamed of himself.

I have explained once why I merged the migrant crisis thread with this one. I'm not going to explain it again.
 
Last edited:
lardiman said:
Not everything is the fault of migrants.
Without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago for lack of staff willing to work hard for low wages, as would all social care services.

The migrant "crisis" is miniscule compared with the massive issues around healthcare, housing, the inequalities between London/South East and the rest of the Country... 8 million able bodied people not working, 8 million sick and suffering people on NHS waiting lists etc. The list goes on and on.

The total number of people who crossed the Channel in small boats last year would not even fill Stamford Bridge football ground.
4,644 have arrived in the UK by small boat since January 1st 2024.
Even our pitiful attendance at the Valley is higher than that.

Compared to the tsunami of troubles facing millions and millions of poor and disadvantaged folk in the UK, the small boats issue is a tiny sideshow.
It is being cynically exploited, used as a distraction and blown out of all proportion by extremists and politicians on the right of the Conservative Party who damned well ought to know better.
Wasting £500 million on the risible Rwanda 'policy' (repulsive gimmick) is a disgraceful waste of taxpayers' money. Rishi Sunak should be ashamed of himself.

I have explained once why I merged the migrant crisis thread with this one. I'm not going to explain it again.
Click to expand...
I think you are getting confused.

The Migrant Crisis isn’t about the small boat crossings, it’s about the Migrant Crisis and all the problems that it brings to this country.

Since 1990 when Thatcher resigned and the country took a swing to the left, our population has gone up by about 10 million. Most of that growth has been led by migration, legal or otherwise. That is not sustainable and is causing many of our society’s current problems. Not all of them of course and it’s not all down to migration, but it is the single biggest factor and the resultant impacts are getting exponentially worse.

You say the NHS would have collapsed, but it simply wouldn’t have. Not if British people were paid a suitably high wage to do the jobs that we now fill with cheap foreign labour, that we wouldn’t otherwise need. And do you not think that the old system of Matrons and Ward Sisters and British nurses isn’t better than the current system of poorly paid foreign workers, many of whom are very difficult to understand because their English is so poor as it is not their first language and they haven’t been in the country very long ?

It’s a self-perpetuating formula to cut wages and keep the poor poor and make the rich richer.

But anyone who tries to highlight this is branded far-right and is silenced, when in fact they are talking perfect sense.

This country is going down the toilet, but let’s not talk about the real cause eh, or have anything so repulsive as a Migrant Crisis thread.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ElfsborgAddick and Ponders Revisited
Ubedizzy2 said:
I think you are getting confused.

The Migrant Crisis isn’t about the small boat crossings, it’s about the Migrant Crisis and all the problems that it brings to this country.

Since 1990 when Thatcher resigned and the country took a swing to the left, our population has gone up by about 10 million. Most of that growth has been led by migration, legal or otherwise. That is not sustainable and is causing many of our society’s current problems. Not all of them of course and it’s not all down to migration, but it is the single biggest factor and the resultant impacts are getting exponentially worse.

You say the NHS would have collapsed, but it simply wouldn’t have. Not if British people were paid a suitably high wage to do the jobs that we now fill with cheap foreign labour, that we wouldn’t otherwise need. And do you not think that the old system of Matrons and Ward Sisters and British nurses isn’t better than the current system of poorly paid foreign workers, many of whom are very difficult to understand because their English is so poor as it is not their first language and they haven’t been in the country very long ?

It’s a self-perpetuating formula to cut wages and keep the poor poor and make the rich richer.

But anyone who tries to highlight this is branded far-right and is silenced, when in fact they are talking perfect sense.

This country is going down the toilet, but let’s not talk about the real cause eh, or have anything so repulsive as a Migrant Crisis thread.
Click to expand...


Tell it to Rishi Sunak.
It is on his watch that legal net immigration was around 700,000 last year.
1.4 million visas granted so I hear.
And I would hardly describe him as left wing.

And have left wingers been in running this Country for the last fourteen years? No, they have not.
What you are describing is a crisis of Government.
Weak leadership, lack of investment in the NHS (which the Tories have never believed in) and the creation of the "Gig Economy" of exploitation and zero hours contracts.
  • Low skills
  • Low training
  • Low wages
  • Lifelong job insecurity
  • Austerity
  • Dickensian private rented slum housing for millions
  • The exponential rise in gambling addiction among poor folk - another Victorian vice returning
  • And now the highest taxes since WW2 and high cost of living
All of these things have come about or been made worse under the stewardship of David Cameron, Theresa May, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak.
Not a left winger among them.

Now the chickens of their 14 years of making the Rich richer and the Poor poorer are coming home to roost, what do they do?
Hide behind the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Wrap themselves in the flag and blame foreigners for all this Nation's ills.

Remarkably, we do not seem to disagree at all regarding the utterly wretched and sorry state the UK is now in.

For me, the responsibility and blame will always lay with those in Power, who have betrayed the trust we placed in them.
Not the powerless people they exploit, then vilify, dehumanise and persecute with their policy of Culture Wars.
Setting poor and suffering communities against each other.
 
Last edited:
Ubedizzy2 said:
...This country is going down the toilet, but let’s not talk about the real cause eh, or have anything so repulsive as a Migrant Crisis thread.
Click to expand...

I have never said the migrant crisis thread was repulsive.
Personally I have sometimes found the subject uncomfortable and unpleasant to talk about.
It is a very emotive one.
But I have never censored or removed one word from anything that was posted on that thread before it was merged with this thread - because there was never any need to. None of us ever posted anything that required moderating.
Everything is still here and available to read.

Even though I said earlier that I would not explain my actions a second time I will now do so, for clarity.
I merged the threads for two reasons;
1. Some posts regarding the migrant issue were made in the news & current affairs thread.
2. I could have moved them, but as I said quite a while ago I did not consider the migrant crisis warranted a separate thread, when there are so many other crises afflicting our society (and on a much greater scale) such as
The Cost of living crisis
The Housing crisis
The NHS and social care crises
The Local Government services crisis
The Policing & Law and order crisis
We don't really want separate threads for all of those do we.
All of those ongoing matters are discussed and debated within the news & current affairs thread. One thread on serious matters which are not football or sports related, on a forum principally dedicated to our common love of Charlton Athletic FC and football in general.

Granted we have a few other non-football threads running;
TV and entertainment
The Good news & bad news threads
And others that are sometimes created on the spur of the moment and are usually enjoyable to contribute to.
Pet hates being a good example.
And in the past we had the Pandemic thread, begun when we faced a huge crisis which seemed an immediate threat to civil order in its early months, and ended up claiming hundreds of thousands of lives.
That thread is no longer used, and I would be happy to delete it, only it doesn't seem necessary.

What I have tried to avoid is a multiplying of threads regarding non-football related current affairs.
As far as some ex-members such as Royston were concerned even one non-football thread is one too many - although during his time here as the moderator he did not delete it.

If the current membership here would like the forum organised in a different way let's talk about it. I'll go with the consensus if there is a clear one.
 
Last edited:
lardiman said:
I have never said the migrant crisis thread was repulsive.
Personally I have sometimes found the subject uncomfortable and unpleasant to talk about.
It is a very emotive one.
But I have never censored or removed one word from anything that was posted on that thread before it was merged with this thread - because there was never any need to. None of us ever posted anything that required moderating.
Everything is still here and available to read.

Even though I said earlier that I would not explain my actions a second time I will now do so, for clarity.
I merged the threads for two reasons;
1. Some posts regarding the migrant issue were made in the news & current affairs thread.
2. I could have moved them, but as I said quite a while ago I did not consider the migrant crisis warranted a separate thread, when there are so many other crises afflicting our society (and on a much greater scale) such as
The Cost of living crisis
The Housing crisis
The NHS and social care crises
The Local Government services crisis
The Policing & Law and order crisis
We don't really want separate threads for all of those do we.
All of those ongoing matters are discussed and debated within the news & current affairs thread. One thread on serious matters which are not football or sports related, on a forum principally dedicated to our common love of Charlton Athletic FC and football in general.

Granted we have a few other non-football threads running;
TV and entertainment
The Good news & bad news threads
And others that are sometimes created on the spur of the moment and are usually enjoyable to contribute to.
Pet hates being a good example.
And in the past we had the Pandemic thread, begun when we faced a huge crisis which seemed an immediate threat to civil order in its early months, and ended up claiming hundreds of thousands of lives.
That thread is no longer used, and I would be happy to delete it, only it doesn't seem necessary.

What I have tried to avoid is a multiplying of threads regarding non-football related current affairs.
As far as some ex-members such as Royston were concerned even one non-football thread is one too many - although during his time here as the moderator he did not delete it.

If the current membership here would like the forum organised in a different way let's talk about it. I'll go with the consensus if there is a clear one.
Click to expand...
If @Ubedizzy wants a migrant crisis thread that's OK by me. I doubt if I'll contribute. All the evidence is that it will only get worse as climate change kicks in. We're dooomed, but Charlton is an escape from the ghastly news which bombards us on a daily basis.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ElfsborgAddick and Smudger603
The Penguin said:
If @Ubedizzy wants a migrant crisis thread that's OK by me. I doubt if I'll contribute. All the evidence is that it will only get worse as climate change kicks in. We're dooomed, but Charlton is an escape from the ghastly news which bombards us on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

Fair play.
If nobody objects strongly I'll re-create it and move all the posts from the merged one back into it.

As a general observation though I'd still prefer not to let 'news & current affairs' type (non-footballing) subjects proliferate into too many threads.
 
lardiman said:
Tell it to Rishi Sunak.
It is on his watch that legal net immigration was around 700,000 last year.
1.4 million visas granted so I hear.
And I would hardly describe him as left wing.

And have left wingers been in running this Country for the last fourteen years? No, they have not.
What you are describing is a crisis of Government.
Weak leadership, lack of investment in the NHS (which the Tories have never believed in) and the creation of the "Gig Economy" of exploitation and zero hours contracts.
  • Low skills
  • Low training
  • Low wages
  • Lifelong job insecurity
  • Austerity
  • Dickensian private rented slum housing for millions
  • The exponential rise in gambling addiction among poor folk - another Victorian vice returning
  • And now the highest taxes since WW2 and high cost of living
All of these things have come about or been made worse under the stewardship of David Cameron, Theresa May, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak.
Not a left winger among them.

Now the chickens of their 14 years of making the Rich richer and the Poor poorer are coming home to roost, what do they do?
Hide behind the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Wrap themselves in the flag and blame foreigners for all this Nation's ills.

Remarkably, we do not seem to disagree at all regarding the utterly wretched and sorry state the UK is now in.

For me, the responsibility and blame will always lay with those in Power, who have betrayed the trust we placed in them.
Not the powerless people they exploit, then vilify, dehumanise and persecute with their policy of Culture Wars.
Setting poor and suffering communities against each other.
Click to expand...
lardiman said:
I have never said the migrant crisis thread was repulsive.
Personally I have sometimes found the subject uncomfortable and unpleasant to talk about.
It is a very emotive one.
But I have never censored or removed one word from anything that was posted on that thread before it was merged with this thread - because there was never any need to. None of us ever posted anything that required moderating.
Everything is still here and available to read.

Even though I said earlier that I would not explain my actions a second time I will now do so, for clarity.
I merged the threads for two reasons;
1. Some posts regarding the migrant issue were made in the news & current affairs thread.
2. I could have moved them, but as I said quite a while ago I did not consider the migrant crisis warranted a separate thread, when there are so many other crises afflicting our society (and on a much greater scale) such as
The Cost of living crisis
The Housing crisis
The NHS and social care crises
The Local Government services crisis
The Policing & Law and order crisis
We don't really want separate threads for all of those do we.
All of those ongoing matters are discussed and debated within the news & current affairs thread. One thread on serious matters which are not football or sports related, on a forum principally dedicated to our common love of Charlton Athletic FC and football in general.

Granted we have a few other non-football threads running;
TV and entertainment
The Good news & bad news threads
And others that are sometimes created on the spur of the moment and are usually enjoyable to contribute to.
Pet hates being a good example.
And in the past we had the Pandemic thread, begun when we faced a huge crisis which seemed an immediate threat to civil order in its early months, and ended up claiming hundreds of thousands of lives.
That thread is no longer used, and I would be happy to delete it, only it doesn't seem necessary.

What I have tried to avoid is a multiplying of threads regarding non-football related current affairs.
As far as some ex-members such as Royston were concerned even one non-football thread is one too many - although during his time here as the moderator he did not delete it.

If the current membership here would like the forum organised in a different way let's talk about it. I'll go with the consensus if there is a clear one.
Click to expand...
Where to start ?

Firstly - you seem determined to turn this into a party politics issue. It is not. The period I highlighted from 1990 covers Tory, Labour and a brief Tory/Liberal Government. They all allowed immigration to run out of control and yet you focus purely on the most recent 14 years of the Tories. This isn’t about the Tories, it’s much bigger than that and includes all the main political parties, none of whom will deal with this issue.

Secondly - not withstanding the above, whether something is ‘left’, ‘right’, ‘hard left’ or ‘hard right’ is purely a matter of opinion based on where you start from. You (and many others in the mainstream media) regularly describe things as ‘hard right’ when in fact they are nothing of the kind. They are often perfectly moderate and sensible thoughts held by ordinary, working class British people, but because our political class’s and mainstream media have lurched to the left, according to them, the middle ground is now ‘right wing’, ‘far right’ etc. Your list of five Tory Prime Ministers with the description of ‘Not a left winger among them’ is a fine example of this starting position or perception. Not a left winger among them ? Really ?

Thirdly - you highlight in red five ‘other’ crises which you feel are more important than the immigration crises as a way of justifying the removal of the Migrant Crisis thread (although you say it’s been ‘merged’ not ‘removed’ even though it has been removed). However the point you seem to miss is that all of those five are made much worse (and in some cases are directly caused by) the Migrant Crisis. The Migrant Crisis IS the single biggest threat to the way of life which has existed in this country for the past 50/60/70 years. It may already be too late to reverse it, but if we don’t try then this county WILL descend into anarchy within the lifetime of my children. And as I’ve said before, that is a totally horrendous and frightening place to be.

I know that discussing the Migrant Crisis on here, regardless of whether it has its own thread or not, won’t make a jot of difference in the wider scheme of things. But I find the removal of the thread and the burying of its contents, under a plethora of other topics, to be a good example of latent censorship.

The thread was fine as it was and had been running for a number of years if I remember rightly. And as you yourself had mentioned, posters on here were able to debate on there without being abusive or insulting, so there really was no need to remove it.



 
The migrant crisis thread was not removed.
However, as soon as I'm able I will separate it again from this thread, complete with all its original posts.
This seems to be what a majority of members would prefer.

I seem to have allowed my personal political views to affect my judgment as a moderator.
Something I will do my best not to let happen again.
I am sorry about the latent censorship.
 
Anyway, back on thread title.
Nice to see the culprit of the stabbing on the Shortlands to Victoria train yesterday has been arrested.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Smudger603
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back