1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

?

Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    24,615
    Likes Received:
    24,023
  2. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    69,896
    Likes Received:
    57,414
    Statistically you’re probably more likely to be a sex case if you’re a male Tory MP than any of the groups discussed above.
     
    #90202
  3. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    116,071
    Likes Received:
    232,358
    good to know

    Europe needs a decade to build up arms stocks, says defence firm boss
    • Published
      2 hours ago
    Share
    Related Topics
    please log in to view this image
    IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
    Image caption,
    Danish PM Mette Frederiksen, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Defence Minister Boris Pistorius and CEO of Rheinmetall Armin Papperger visited the site of the new Rheinmetall factory in Lower Saxony
    By Jessica Parker
    BBC Berlin correspondent

    Europe will need 10 years before it is fully ready to defend itself, the boss of Germany's biggest defence firm, Rheinmetall, told the BBC.

    Armin Papperger said that ammunition stocks are currently "empty".

    He made the comments during a visit by Chancellor Olaf Scholz at a foundation-laying ceremony for a major new arms manufacturing plant in Lower Saxony.

    Defence Minister Boris Pistorius and Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen were also in attendance.


    The comments come a day after comments by US presidential hopeful Donald Trump sparked fresh alarm in Europe.

    The frontrunner for the Republican nomination said he once told a world leader he would not protect Nato members who don't pay their dues and would even "encourage" aggressors to "do whatever the hell they want".


    Rheinmetall has said it will invest more than $300m (£274m) in the new facility. It is eventually expected to produce 200,000 rounds of artillery shells annually.

    Mr Papperger said that a "long time" would be needed to prepare against an "aggressor who wants to fight against Nato".

    "We are fine in three, four years - but to be really prepared, we need 10 years," he said.

    "We have to produce 1.5 million rounds [of ammunition] in Europe," Mr Papperger added. He said a vast amount of Europe's ammunition was sent to Ukraine, leaving little for European stocks.

    "As long as we have war, we have to help Ukraine, but later we [will] need five years at a minimum and 10 years to really fill [ammunition stocks] up," he said.

    Chancellor Scholz refused to say whether he was concerned about Mr Trump's comments, saying that he was "absolutely sure" that Nato was "of essence" for the US, Canada and European countries.


    "We stick to it, the President of United States sticks to it and I'm sure the American people will do so also," he went on.

    But he did say that Russian President Vladimir Putin had shown "imperial ambitions" and added: "If you want peace, you have to successfully deter possible aggressors."

    Asked by the BBC whether she thought that Europe needed to be ready to go at it alone if the US withdrew its support, Ms Frederiksen said Europe had to be ready "no matter what". She added that the "more and more aggressive Russia" was proof that Europe had to scale up.

    "We have to speed up and that's the reason why I'm here today," she said.

    It's nearly two years since Chancellor Scholz declared Zeitenwende - a turning point in Germany's foreign and defence policy - following President Putin's full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

    There was widespread recognition that a "change through trade" policy with Russia had failed.


    Allies had hoped that Germany, Europe's biggest economy, would take an increasingly assertive role in security and shed its traditional caution.

    please log in to view this image

    Image caption,
    Dr Claudia Major says Europe would not currently be able to defend itself without the help of the United States
    Yet in 2023, Germany was among a majority of Nato members who were forecast to miss the 2% spending target.

    Berlin is expected to hit 2% in 2024 - but only through a one-off fund.

    Europe has been investing more since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, says Dr Claudia Major from the German Institute for International and Security Affairs.

    "But if we are very honest, we know that in the moment, in a conventional conflict, Europeans are not able to defend themselves without the support of the United States," she added.

    She says "so much has been done" since Zeitenwende - but still not enough to confront the full spectrum of global security challenges.

    Mr Papperger agreed that Zeitenwende is "not only a word" and believes trust between government and defence contractors has improved.

    Rheinmetall's share price has steadily risen since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

    Germany's past hangs heavy over this debate, as rearmament has led to military and morale catastrophe in the 20th Century.

    While no one knows what will happen in the US election this year, Mr Trump's latest comments are being described as a wake-up call for all of Europe - although it could hardly be described as the first.

    Related Topics
     
    #90203
  4. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    Rochdale - yet another Starmer U turn. Unfuckingbelievable
     
    #90204
  5. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    69,896
    Likes Received:
    57,414
    Behave you ridiculous old mess.
     
    #90205
  6. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    Messages:
    36,051
    Likes Received:
    19,651
    Get used to it.
     
    #90206
    Goldhawk-Road likes this.
  7. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    Yeah, if you have no answer to a political point, go for ageism. Your manta is, "I may be thick but at least I'm young"
     
    #90207
    rangercol likes this.
  8. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    I can see a catastrophe ahead.
     
    #90208
  9. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    69,896
    Likes Received:
    57,414
    On this one it’s more scoffing at your hypocrisy. How many times have the Tories rallied round one of their own for days or weeks before finally having to admit it was wrong while you cheered for it? Starmer has made a decision in one working day.
     
    #90209
  10. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    116,071
    Likes Received:
    232,358
    Too late to get him off the ballot apparently
     
    #90210

  11. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    I've not cheered poor policies and I won't vote for these Tories. Starmer's history of U turns since leading Labour has been shocking. He just doesn't believe in anything. He's weak and uninspired. I've never known a time when the US and UK have such poor political leaders.
     
    #90211
    rangercol likes this.
  12. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    14,355
    Likes Received:
    16,160
    Boris johnson would be a front runner in one of the worst political leaders ever, closely followed by Truss.
     
    #90212
    Toby likes this.
  13. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    14,355
    Likes Received:
    16,160
    I remember that U turn from Truss but by then it was too late, adding misery and mortgage rises to millions of people. Always better to turn before rather than face the implications after. That's the sensible approach in anyone's book. The ironic thing is, Starmers U turns have not effected anybody as he's not in power but those who wouldn't be voting for him anyway get a bit carried away
     
    #90213
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2024
  14. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    Boris Johnson had charisma for some, but he wasn't prime ministerial material. Truss was pig headed, and I wasn't impressed by Theresa May either, who ran down the police force at a time when we were inviting the Third World into the country and crime was rising. But if you look at the number of U turns Starmer has made, it's frightening. He cannot govern like that credibly.
     
    #90214
  15. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    14,355
    Likes Received:
    16,160
    As long as they come before the manifesto is published, I then don't have an issue. I would if we get lied to prior to the election. We've all had a gut full of that.
     
    #90215
  16. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    24,615
    Likes Received:
    24,023
    I can see 14 years of catastrophe behind.
     
    #90216
    Toby and bobmid like this.
  17. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    14,355
    Likes Received:
    16,160
    Even if Labour are just 1% less corrupt then it will be progress
     
    #90217
    Toby likes this.
  18. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    If you think that, you have to apply it to the rest of Europe too. Looking ahead, Starmer will have difficulty keeping the Jewish and Islamic factions happy. How long before we have religious sectarian parties in Parliament?
     
    #90218
  19. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    Don't bet on it. Remember Cash for Honours? Child sexual exploitation scandals, Rotherham etc
     
    #90219
  20. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832

Share This Page