Progress under LR

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Tigerboy98 said:
He has improved us compared to Shota (not hard really) however he won’t get us promoted.

Any half decent manager would be capable of a similar points tally with a squad like this, and like I’ve said previously a lot of these points came from individual brilliance rather than a masterclass in tactics.

Has there been many games this season where you’ve thought ‘wow, we’ve played them off the park today, I can really see the system/process clearly working’ cause I can’t! It feels like whenever we’ve won it’s because of moments of individual brilliance, luck, or the opposition just being terrible.

You just need to look at the teams with similar points on the table, look at their squad, do they have anywhere near as good as players? No. So clearly there’s something going wrong here.

Pains me to say but I feel like Adkins or McCann could do just as good if not better with these players.
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Actually yes, has been a lot of games this season we’ve heavily dominated and just not been able to create a decent clear chance and/or score. I do think it’s a solid way to try and set up most the time but it doesn’t always work, and particularly so when performances are flat there is no pick me up in this team at all other than someone coming up with a moment of individual brilliance. When the team is playing **** and performance levels are down it’s hard to pick it up by playing more tippy tappy arsenal walk it into the goal football. There’s not even a bone crunching tackle in the whole squad to give the fans a lift. It’s all just very meh.
 
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the only game we haven't ****ed about at the back recently was Millwall at the start which was a revelation - clearly Rosie bollocked them at half time because they reverted to ****ing about at the back in the second half and as a result we nearly let Millwall back in the game because our defence aren't good enough to get the ball out properly if team's press us back - Against Swansea we started ****ing about from the start and all game we allowed Swansea to press us back and we again we kept giving the ball away and failing to deal with them - we really need to start pushing forward faster and stop this Jones, Greaves, Allsop nonsense that gets us absolutely nowhere very slowly especially when we win a throw next to the opposition box and rather than attack we end up working the ball back to our keeper - for ****'s sake - it really isn't a good watch
 
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charon-the-ferryman said:
the only game we haven't ****ed about at the back recently was Millwall at the start which was a revelation - clearly Rosie bollocked them at half time because they reverted to ****ing about at the back in the second half and as a result we nearly let Millwall back in the game because our defence aren't good enough to get the ball out properly if team's press us back - Against Swansea we started ****ing about from the start and all game we allowed Swansea to press us back and we again we kept giving the ball away and failing to deal with them - we really need to start pushing forward faster and stop this Jones, Greaves, Allsop nonsense that gets us absolutely nowhere very slowly especially when we win a throw next to the opposition box and rather than attack we end up working the ball back to our keeper - for ****'s sake - it really isn't a good watch
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I thought the opposite, we hoofed it long far too much against Swansea and no one was able to capitalise. Sharp had that half chance but outside that we had no one to latch onto our long balls.
 
SydneyTiger14 said:
I thought the opposite, we hoofed it long far too much against Swansea and no one was able to capitalise. Sharp had that half chance but outside that we had no one to latch onto our long balls.
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We hoofed it long because that's all Swansea allowed us to do, because they knew we don't like doing it and aren't set up for it. Press us high up, stop us ****ing around at the back, make us panic and hoof it long or give it away in our own half. They were brilliant at it all game
 
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Wessie Exile said:
We hoofed it long because that's all Swansea allowed us to do, because they knew we don't like doing it and aren't set up for it. Press us high up, stop us ****ing around at the back, make us panic and hoof it long or give it away in our own half. They were brilliant at it all game
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So which is it?
 
-> how do you explain the clear and marked improvement of players like Delap, Morton, Tufan, Philogene, Coyle, and Slater under Rosenior

Delap, Morton, Philogene are young, highly talented players from whom we are seeing the benefits of their earlier loans to other clubs and their natural growth.
Coyle hasn't particularly improved in any way. He just has the heart of a lion, gets stuck in and gives 100%. He's the only bit of 'steel' we have in the side, which is a massive oversight in our recruitment. He was arguably more effective before Rosenior got his hands on him, meaning we see less and less of him bombing forward delivering decent crosses than we used to do; can't be having that sort of excitement.
Slater only turned 24 this season, so we are seeing a bit of natural development, but not much as he's limited but at least grafts.
Tufan has got himself fit and is clearly trying to resurrect his career. Given his experience and previous achievements, he's clearly a quality player. He seems to have a good relationship with Rosenior, I'll give him that, but I don't see how Rosenior has credit for 'clear and marked improvement' of Tufan. It might help if he played him in a more natural position.
 
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Gone For A Walk said:
-> how do you explain the clear and marked improvement of players like Delap, Morton, Tufan, Philogene, Coyle, and Slater under Rosenior

Delap, Morton, Philogene are young, highly talented players from whom we are seeing the benefits of their earlier loans to other clubs and their natural growth.
Coyle hasn't particularly improved in any way. He just has the heart of a lion, gets stuck in and gives 100%. He's the only bit of 'steel' we have in the side, which is a massive oversight in our recruitment. He was arguably more effective before Rosenior got his hands on him, meaning we see less and less of him bombing forward delivering decent crosses than we used to do; can't be having that sort of excitement.
Slater only turned 24 this season, so we are seeing a bit of natural development, but not much as he's limited but at least grafts.
Tufan has got himself fit and is clearly trying to resurrect his career. Given his experience and previous achievements, he's clearly a quality player. He seems to have a good relationship with Rosenior, I'll give him that, but I don't see how Rosenior has credit for 'clear and marked improvement' of Tufan. It might help if he played him in a more natural position.
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Tufan was widely regarded as MOTM last week playing as a false 9.

I think it's simplistic to say that young players were always going to improve with or without Rosenior as manager. Or we just got lucky and got three in who were always going to have a good season..
 
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Wessie Exile said:
We hoofed it long because that's all Swansea allowed us to do, because they knew we don't like doing it and aren't set up for it. Press us high up, stop us ****ing around at the back, make us panic and hoof it long or give it away in our own half. They were brilliant at it all game
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This is the point Syd. The hoofing comes from us being slow at the back. The opposition are forcing us to and will continue to do so. This passing around the back (‘drawing them in’) rarely works and is now our main downfall. It is what will get Rosenior sacked if he is happy that they continue to play this way. It’ll be a shame because lots of us want him to see the light and be more attacking and to be successful. I’m now doubting this will happen as it’s gone on too long.

A minimum of 4 points is needed in the next two games to almost make up for the recent form. Any less than 3 and this will become a very popular thread.
 
DuaneDarby18 said:
This is the point Syd. The hoofing comes from us being slow at the back. The opposition are forcing us to and will continue to do so. This passing around the back (‘drawing them in’) rarely works and is now our main downfall. It is what will get Rosenior sacked if he is happy that they continue to play this way. It’ll be a shame because lots of us want him to see the light and be more attacking and to be successful. I’m now doubting this will happen as it’s gone on too long.

A minimum of 4 points is needed in the next two games to almost make up for the recent form. Any less than 3 and this will become a very popular thread.
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This seems a strange assumption to make when he has repeatedly expressed frustration and disapproval with our laconic play.
 
NewcastleTiger said:
55% of our total touches this season are in our defensive third…

That is a system issue.
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Is it an issue? We're sitting 7th in the table with this supposed 'issue'. It feels much worse when we've just had a bad performance, but a bit of perspective probably helps.
 
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Howdentiger2 said:
They are.... But any one who seem to challenge LR and the same things we seem to be seeing week in week out are labeled negative..... You can't just challenge one way because it's the way you fancy challenging.

We're a team that plays like it's got the brakes on and is more worried about losing then going out to create a win. That's either down to LR making the players play that way or he isn't but he's not coaching/setting up in a way to stop it happening. Which ever it is, it just has to change immediately if we want a serious challenge this season ( or next ).
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Maybe people just think you’re negative?

People can challenge that if that’s what they think. You can tell me you’re not negative, fine.

But sorry, I don’t buy this ‘people are only allowed an opinion one way’. I see both opinions on here. Actually, I see more opinions against Rosenior than for.

I think as it stands that’s too negative. He’s done a decent job, and yes we should probably now expect a play off place or a very close challenge.

But in my opinion, saying he’s not the man for the job after this forward line has played two games together is ridiculous.
 
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TIGERSCAVE said:
I'll stick my head above the parapet and say he's not the man for the job. He doesn't have the experience or the nouse to get this club and these players to where the people that matter (the owners and fans) want to go. I'm of the opinion he's stifling the natural skill and ability that was recognised in players when playing for other clubs before the club stumped up money for them. No real freedom of movement except in patches. More, he's definitely stifling improvement by playing people who are seen as favourites when others are sat on the bench. Forcing players out of the club, 'because he doesn't suit his style FFS' . Every manager in this division has him sussed and thats why we're treading water, hoping other clubs arounds us are treading water too. To lose to clubs currently in 21st and 22nd and before yesterday in 18th is just not good enough with the ambition and bar set so high. Worse on each of these occasions QPR, Massive and Swansea we haven't even turned up. We won at Sunderland because they didnt turn up. What does that tell you. He's been backed beyond backed for someone with his management CV. Acun has said he wants his supporters to be excited and for him to do an interview with Tan (posted yesterday) saying he wants the supporters to get behind the team and be more vociferous and try and drive them on says a lot for me at least. The support will do that naturally when we are playing and I mean playing. This is my opinion and anyone who thinks otherwise and wants to take a swing is wasting their time. As HT2 says, in the future he might be a good fit for this club because of his background, but his grandma isn't going to get this club promoted.
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Agreed.
After the last 160+ minutes of 'football', you'd have to conclude we've gone backwards, not made progress. And then there's performances TC mentions above. Better and better players, but same old ****e.

I think Rosenior should:
- spend a season as understudy to Colin in order to learn some pragmatism and common sense, and to speed up his apprenticeship
- or, apply to coach Man City's U9's
- or go back to punditry so he can eloquently spout idealistic BS as much as he wants (not that I'd want to listen thanks)

Talking of sticking heads above parapets, I'll raise you one. Acun is in many ways a great owner, and has done some great things for us, but he's acquiring a growing potentially worrying list of expensive, failed experiments / mistakes. Off the top of my head, Shota, Rosenior, Sinik, Allahyar, Pelkas, Tetteh (and several others not added where he's almost certainly had personal 'involvement'), pursuing & expecting HCC to allow a sporting village on the site, Fortuna Sittard, Shelbourne, etc. There seems to be an incredible enthusiasm coupled with a naivity that doesn't want to take more tried & tested routes appropriate for where we are and what we need. Alongside him he has chosen Tan who comes over so impressively but was also totally inexperienced in terms of English football, and by implication has also been learning on the job; another example of Acun not taking a tried and tested option (along side or instead of). I just hope he has the money, resilience and learning ability to see it through to eventual success.

I'm so pissed off after yesterday. Yep, I know I shouldn't be after all these years. Maybe I / we just have to be incredibly patient and it will all eventually fall in place on and off the pitch, hoping they learn, adapt & develop. But, I fear they've backed the wrong horse again, that it won't all fall into place and Acun will add Hull City to his growing list.
 
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Gone For A Walk said:
Agreed.
After the last 160+ minutes of 'football', you'd have to conclude we've gone backwards, not made progress. And then there's performances TC mentions above. Better and better players, but same old ****e.

I think Rosenior should:
- spend a season as understudy to Colin in order to learn some pragmatism and common sense, and to speed up his apprenticeship
- or, apply to coach Man City's U9's
- or go back to punditry so he can eloquently spout idealistic BS as much as he wants (not that I'd want to listen thanks)

Talking of sticking heads above parapets, I'll raise you one. Acun is in many ways a great owner, and has done some great things for us, but he's acquiring a growing potentially worrying list of expensive, failed experiments / mistakes. Off the top of my head, Shota, Rosenior, Sinik, Allahyar, Pelkas, Tetteh (and several others not added where he's almost certainly had personal 'involvement'), pursuing & expecting HCC to allow a sporting village on the site, Fortuna Sittard, Shelbourne, etc. There seems to be an incredible enthusiasm coupled with a naivity that doesn't want to take more tried & tested routes appropriate for where we are and what we need. Alongside him he has chosen Tan who comes over so impressively but was also totally inexperienced in terms of English football, and by implication has also been learning on the job; another example of Acun not taking a tried and tested option (along side or instead of). I just hope he has the money, resilience and learning ability to see it through to eventual success.

I'm so pissed off after yesterday. Yep, I know I shouldn't be after all these years. Maybe I / we just have to be incredibly patient and it will all eventually fall in place on and off the pitch, hoping they learn, adapt & develop. But, I fear they've backed the wrong horse again, that it won't all fall into place and Acun will add Hull City to his growing list.
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I think deep down we all know which way it's likely to go, after all these years of following the club, but are crossing our fingers anyway
 
SydneyTiger14 said:
This seems a strange assumption to make when he has repeatedly expressed frustration and disapproval with our laconic play.
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That’s why I put if. :emoticon-0105-wink: I hope he isn’t and that he changes things quickly.

He expressed his disapproval in his post match comments this time. But we have been doing this for a while now. I think it comes from this ‘possession wins you games’ philosophy.
 
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