HOW LONG DO WE GIVE HIM ?

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SuffolkCanary said:
We don’t see rotation though, all the old boys start and the young lads are on the bench other than Rowe
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carrowcanario said:
Which young lads do you think should be playing that he's not playing ? What about Idah, Fisher, Gibbs?
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Apart from Sargent and Sara, who we know will start every time when fit, the only younger players to clock up a significant number of competitive minutes on the pitch are Rowe and Idah. These totals are from WhoScored, and don't include Tuesday's game against Watford:
Fisher 151 mins
Gibbs 274
Idah 739
McCallum 87
Núñez 313
Placheta 402
Rowe 1193
Sainz 96
Springett 206
Warner 154
Sainz of course has been out of contention through injury, and Warner wouldn't be on the list at all were it not for Duffy's suspension and injuries to the other CBs. To put those totals in perspective, and excluding Idah and Rowe, the other 8 between them have contributed only about 8% of total minutes played. Cup games and substitute appearances account for most of those minutes.
 
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Rowe is the most obvious young player and we've missed him in recent games. Sara(24), Núñez(23) and Gibbs(20) are all young and Fisher(19) and Springett(21) also show Wagner doesn't have any aversion to youth. Long is 30 but that isn't old for a keeper - Krul is 35. When Rowe(20), Gunn(25), Sargent(23) and Sørensen(25) are back from injury the age profile of available players will be very different. Just Idah(22) starting for the injured Hwang at Bristol will make a difference. I really don't think the age profile of our squad differs greatly from other Championship teams. Injuries have skewed the overall picture.
 
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Robbie BB said:
Apart from Sargent and Sara, who we know will start every time when fit, the only younger players to clock up a significant number of competitive minutes on the pitch are Rowe and Idah. These totals are from WhoScored, and don't include Tuesday's game against Watford:
Fisher 151 mins
Gibbs 274
Idah 739
McCallum 87
Núñez 313
Placheta 402
Rowe 1193
Sainz 96
Springett 206
Warner 154
Sainz of course has been out of contention through injury, and Warner wouldn't be on the list at all were it not for Duffy's suspension and injuries to the other CBs. To put those totals in perspective, and excluding Idah and Rowe, the other 8 between them have contributed only about 8% of total minutes played. Cup games and substitute appearances account for most of those minutes.
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Thanks for doing the math Robbie, that puts it into perspective
 
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Robbie BB said:
To put those totals in perspective, and excluding Idah and Rowe, the other 8 between them have contributed only about 8% of total minutes played. Cup games and substitute appearances account for most of those minutes.
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Cup game ratings and minutes are not included in WhoScored's player stats.

The perspective becomes very distorted when you take Sargent, Sara, Idah and Rowe out of the calculations.
 
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SuffolkCanary said:
Nunez could be playing in the 10. Sainz could be playing ahead of Hernandez. Idah instead of Hwang. Warner instead of Duffy.

That’s 4
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So Nunez plays instead of who ?

Idah has been given plenty of chances to show what he can do , which ain't a lot and started with Hwang in the last game. Interestingly in the few minutes he was on Hwang scored, whereas Idah did little. He has got to be drinking in the last chance saloon.

Sainz & Warner what evidence is there that they can do better than those that are playing. Other than wishful thinking, what makes you think they are ready for this level or more capable than those that are playing. Are you for example saying that Sainz is standing out ahead of Hernandez in training, but Wagner isn't playing him because of his age

We could go on all day. I'm not saying that some of the younger players won't be able to step up at some point, but I see absolutely no evidence that Wagner is or is not playing players because of there age. Indeed all the evidence I can see is that as soon as he thinks a young player can earn a place on merit, he plays them. I also see no evidence to suggest that he selects players for anything other than footballing reasons. Young players when they get a chance need to grab it, like Rowe did. Some young players need to be introduced slowly. There is always the temptation to see the players on the bench as saviours who can do wonders, whereas generally the truth is they are on the bench for a reason. The triumph of hope over experience.
 
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Early 30s isn't too old for CBs, where experience is so valuable. The defence wasn't at fault for our loss at Watford, it was our poor play when in possession - our 73% pass success rate is very poor (Watford had 86%). As Wagner put it: "We had so many easy turnovers, so many missed passes, that we were not able to go out of our own half and were caught under a lot of pressure."

The loss of Hwang blew the game plan as it greatly reduced our attacking threat for the rest of the match. This allowed Watford to push forward with more players, dominating the possession, especially in midfield. Having more young players on the pitch under such pressure would be unlikely to improve the situation, IMO.
 
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As for older player recruitment, in the summer we signed 6 players 30 or over while 4 players 30 or over left the club (Pukki, Byram, Krul and McGovern) so a net addition of two, one on loan. We also signed 11 players under 30.
 
The second half of the first half an hour we were scintillating, Hwang went off & we treated the ball like a hot potato & capitulated worse than i can remember since Plymouth away
 
RiverEndRick said:
A glimpse of the future perhaps as our U21s beat Blackburn 4-0, as 6 of the 11 starters were players recruited this summer:

https://www.canaries.co.uk/content/under-21s-claim-4-0-win-over-blackburn-rovers
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Now that we are down to just Idah and a half fit Barnes I wonder if we might see the likes of Aboh or Manning called up to the bench for the next few weeks. Or perhaps Rowe could be utilised through the middle as appeared to work quite well against Cardiff.
I’m sure Wagner will probably end up starting Gibbs or Placheta up front before any of the above happens.
 
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Attanasio's view:

“It was a difficult night (at Watford). The first 26 minutes were pretty special but the next 50 minutes were pretty awful. All of our deficiencies at this club were laid bare that night, and it’s not just the coaching. It’s uniquely British to say ‘coach out’, but I’ve been here about 14 months and in two years we’ve had three coaches. That is not something you see in American sports – if you have two CEOs in two years, that is not a prescription for success. That is a sign of a knee-jerk reaction. We should all give Ben (Knapper) a chance to assess things and make moves that are strategic and work in the middle to long term. I’m convinced he will make the right choices. We will leave it to Ben.”
 
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carrowcanario said:
There is always the temptation to see the players on the bench as saviours who can do wonders, whereas generally the truth is they are on the bench for a reason. The triumph of hope over experience.
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Nothing to do with hope over experience, it's to do with short term v longer term thinking.
RiverEndRick said:
The perspective is very distorted when you take Sargent, Sara, Idah and Rowe out of the calculations.
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I disagree. Assuming all are fit, Wagner's current preferred starting eleven comprises 3 players in their late 20s (Gunn, Stacey, Giannoulis), 5 players thirty or over (Duffy/Hanley, Gibson/Batth, McLean, Fassnacht/Hernandez, Barnes) and just 3 under 25 (Sara, Rowe, Sargent). The median age of that eleven is 28. Such a short term selection policy can only be justified by results and a firm grip on a place in the top six.
 
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RiverEndRick said:
Cup game ratings and minutes are not included in WhoScored's player stats.
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Oops! Apologies. WhoScored do give individual player stats for Cup games, but they are not aggregated with the Championship stats on the main Player Statistics pages. To access a player's Cup data, just type the player's name into the Search box.

The revised figures below are for league matches only, now including the Watford game:
Fisher 173
Gibbs 297
Idah 806
McCallum 87
Núñez 319
Placheta 402
Rowe 1193
Sainz 103
Springett 206
Warner 154
The effect of the revision is to increase the contribution of the listed players -- excluding Rowe and Idah as before -- from 8% to 9.25%.
 
With nine points from three away and one home games I would have thought this thread was redundant for a decent spell.
 
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