Match Day Thread Plymouth Argyle FC v Sunderland AFC – Saturday 25th November 2023 - KO 15:00

[John Wick]

Because they have a good manager and they’re organised. We aren’t. We have the ability to control games but when teams attack us we sh*t our pants and fall apart because we have square pegs in round holes.

A agree. Organised and with no real pressure on them other than to stay up. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that we aren't in a relegation battle, by that I mean 17th down over and I believe we "over achieved" last season, so in terms of the board and ownership, we're probably where they expected us to be. Who know, funny old game mate.

 

[Porterfield73]

Not sure top 2 was ever achievable, but I see Ipswich lost tonight. Long way to go

Got to be honest, I'm not sure I want us to go up yet. I know that sounds defeatist, but if we really are building something long term then maybe we have to accept it'll take a few years to get us to the place where we can go up AND compete. Look at Burnley and Sheff Utd this season - they were miles ahead of the rest of the pack last year and are getting destroyed week after week in the PL. I've been there, done that more time than I care to remember and have no desire to see us go up to compete for 17th place every season.

Great post

 

[TopCat.]

Promotion form then, everything’s going well nothing to change.. again 3 points more than Norwich and only 4 more than Birmingham, both of whom we’ve said are worse than sh*te in the last few weeks so that shows you how good we are

I suppose it depends on what you think our realistic ambitions are this season. I am in the minority by not being particularly bothered about going up. I had 10 years in the PL watching us win 95 of the 380 games we played. Watching us scratch about for 4th bottom and celebrating like we'd won a cup. When we go back up, I want us to be ready to compete. Do you think Burnley and Sheff Utd fan are enjoying going to the match each week?

I go to the match with my Dad, my boy, my 2 best mates and their kids. I love watching us play and having an expectation, rather than a hope of seeing us win. For me, a few seasons challenging the top end of the Championship whilst developing the young lads and selling off a good player or two every year as the squad evolves to the point where we are good enough to do what Brentford or Brighton are doing would be the perfect storm for me.

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

I suppose it depends on what you think our realistic ambitions are this season. I am in the minority by not being particularly bothered about going up. I had 10 years in the PL watch us win 95 of the 380 games we played. Watching us scratch about for 4th bottom and celebrating like we'd won a cup. When we go back up, I want us to be ready to compete. Do you think Burnley and Sheff Utd fan are enjoying going to the match each week?

I go to the match with my Dad, my boy, my 2 best mates and their kids. I love watching us play and having an expectation, rather than a hope of seeing us win. For me, a few seasons challenging the top end of the Championship whilst developing the young lads and selling off a good player or two every year as the squad evolves to the point where we are good enough to do what Brentford or Brighton are doing would be the perfect storm for me.

Brighton loaned their way to the PL and Brentford sold and reinvested. I’m not against either but a lot of our fans seem to be. If we don’t go up we lose 3-4 first teamers and have to replace them which I couldn’t care less about but I can guarantee there would be a meltdown if we sold for arguments sake Clarke, Neil and Patto. It’s a double edged sword. I do admit it’s easy for us judging from the outside we all have that money spent and think we could improve the team.

What frustrates me is I see so much talent but it’s the same sh*te every week win lose or draw. A better manager would have this team flying up at the top of the league I have no doubt about it it’s the best squad of players we’ve had for a long time.

It’s clear we concede too easily but he won’t change it.
It’s clear the midfield are all too similar but he won’t change it.
It’s clear we need a recognised 9 integrated into the Xl but he refuses to persist.

If you continue playing the same Xl surely you expect the same mistakes?

 

[Smug in Boots]

Brighton loaned their way to the PL and Brentford sold and reinvested. I’m not against either but a lot of our fans seem to be. If we don’t go up we lose 3-4 first teamers and have to replace them which I couldn’t care less about but I can guarantee there would be a meltdown if we sold for arguments sake Clarke, Neil and Patto. It’s a double edged sword. I do admit it’s easy for us judging from the outside we all have that money spent and think we could improve the team.

What frustrates me is I see so much talent but it’s the same sh*te every week win lose or draw. A better manager would have this team flying up at the top of the league I have no doubt about it it’s the best squad of players we’ve had for a long time.

It’s clear we concede too easily but he won’t change it.
It’s clear the midfield are all too similar but he won’t change it.
It’s clear we need a recognised 9 integrated into the Xl but he refuses to persist.

If you continue playing the same Xl surely you expect the same mistakes?

Really?

 

[TopCat.]

it’s the same sh*te every week win lose or draw.

Not sure I understand that comment. It's ****e when we win? Surely not??

It’s clear we need a recognised 9 integrated into the Xl but he refuses to persist. it’s the same sh*te every week win lose or draw.

I don't think it's his choice that we don't have a recognised no.9. We've played with a striker in all but 1 game since we beat Southampton 5-0

 

[cumbrianmackem]

I used to get so ****ing annoyed when we lost but not now. Not with this team. We lost but dominated the game and played good football. Folk need to accept we aren't a Leicester or Leeds or Southampton who have ready-made players and expect promotion. We are a work in progress and are trying to build something sustainable and exciting for future. Mayenda is 18 ffs and Jamie vary is an England International getting paid 100k a week. We need to suck up afternoons like today.

Trying to catch up on this thread, I've gotten to page 21 and yours is the best post by a country mile.
We've got a bunch of very talented kids who will have off days.
Argyle manager was full of praise for us and their game, easy I know when you've just won but we're going in the right direction and have been all season.
This board has its usual detractors when we get beat but so what, important we put it right Wednesday, just need to take a few of the chances we create every game, if we weren't making these chances then I might worry but in the meantime carry on we're having a decent season and the club is in an upward curve. HTL.

 

[Smug in Boots]

I used to get so ****ing annoyed when we lost but not now. Not with this team. We lost but dominated the game and played good football. Folk need to accept we aren't a Leicester or Leeds or Southampton who have ready-made players and expect promotion. We are a work in progress and are trying to build something sustainable and exciting for future. Mayenda is 18 ffs and Jamie vary is an England International getting paid 100k a week. We need to suck up afternoons like today.

All very true mate, it's a shame some people are so bitter and aggressive about the club, manager ...

... even the players ffs.

 

[TopCat.]

Our CB getting surrounded by a load of wingers who are bigger than him. Sorry I might be old fashioned but I just can’t accept it

https://x.com/tatsumakibones/status/1728454697303052664?s=20

Pushing and shoving with no intent to harm. Pathetic schoolgirl handbags

 

[sensiblegreeny]

Can I add a perspective from the opposition benches to this thread? No offence meant in any of what I have to say so please do not take it the wrong way.

I haven't read 27 pages of this thread but have randomly clicked on a few and read some of the offerings. I can only find two things to object to one of which was somebody saying "we should be beating the likes of Plymouth". We are Argyle and the City is Plymouth for one. It comes across as a bit derogatory with "the like of". The second bit was the Ref today who seemed like a big team supporter at times. I did think some of your player went down easier than a Dockyard Flopsy outside Pompey. Your players stopped doing that in the second half so it became irrelevant. If we are totally honest then we would accept all teams have them.

As for the game itself. It was a decent spectacle and if you were a neutral would have been edge of the seat stuff for a lot of the time. You have a great side there who will win a load more games than they lose. Today just wasn't your's and I think you could still be out there now without a goal. We have all had games like that. The first half was more 50/50 the difference being we took the two chances we had and you didn't. The first goal was worthy of winning any game from Whittaker. The second whilst not as spectacular was still a great finish. Second half you battered us for virtually the whole 45+ minutes. The fact the ball didn't go in the net was more to do with divine intervention than anything else. I have to add to that we were due a turn of fortune and your lads paid the price in full. On another day we would have lost and I have no problem saying that. On another day we should have lost. Today though was our day and it is as simple as that rather than Sunderland suddenly becoming a bad team.

I did read a few posts about whether being in the Prem was better than this league. For what it's worth I always wanted to see my club just once play in the top league in this Country. But, now I'm not so sure. There is far more fun to be had in the Championship that you could never get in the Prem. A good season winning more than you lose is worth more than playing better opposition, mainly financially, and getting shupped week in week out. League one was better than the Prem when we were there for pure entertainment although I'd rather be in this league. Anyway I think you will be in the hunt again this season and wish you well if you would rather be up than here.

 

[TopCat.]

Can I add a perspective from the opposition benches to this thread? No offence meant in any of what I have to say so please do not take it the wrong way.

I haven't read 27 pages of this thread but have randomly clicked on a few and read some of the offerings. I can only find two things to object to one of which was somebody saying "we should be beating the likes of Plymouth". We are Argyle and the City is Plymouth for one. It comes across as a bit derogatory with "the like of". The second bit was the Ref today who seemed like a big team supporter at times. I did think some of your player went down easier than a Dockyard Flopsy outside Pompey. Your players stopped doing that in the second half so it became irrelevant. If we are totally honest then we would accept all teams have them.

As for the game itself. It was a decent spectacle and if you were a neutral would have been edge of the seat stuff for a lot of the time. You have a great side there who will win a load more games than they lose. Today just wasn't your's and I think you could still be out there now without a goal. We have all had games like that. The first half was more 50/50 the difference being we took the two chances we had and you didn't. The first goal was worthy of winning any game from Whittaker. The second whilst not as spectacular was still a great finish. Second half you battered us for virtually the whole 45+ minutes. The fact the ball didn't go in the net was more to do with divine intervention than anything else. I have to add to that we were due a turn of fortune and your lads paid the price in full. On another day we would have lost and I have no problem saying that. On another day we should have lost. Today though was our day and it is as simple as that rather than Sunderland suddenly becoming a bad team.

I did read a few posts about whether being in the Prem was better than this league. For what it's worth I always wanted to see my club just once play in the top league in this Country. But, now I'm not so sure. There is far more fun to be had in the Championship that you could never get in the Prem. A good season winning more than you lose is worth more than playing better opposition, mainly financially, and getting shupped week in week out. League one was better than the Prem when we were there for pure entertainment although I'd rather be in this league. Anyway I think you will be in the hunt again this season and wish you well if you would rather be up than here.

Not reading all that. You deserved to win. Simple as that. Well done and enjoy the rest of the season

 

[Ozzymac]

Our CB getting surrounded by a load of wingers who are bigger than him. Sorry I might be old fashioned but I just can’t accept it

https://x.com/tatsumakibones/status/1728454697303052664?s=20

Same height as Cannavaro, Baresi, Mascherano to name but a few

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

Really?

What I meant was the same Xl every week no matter what the result. The same people making the same mistakes and won’t be dropped. If you’re scared to make changes after such poor form then you’re never going to make them. I understand not changing a winning team but to change a team that’s not performing is just a fundamental of management surely?

 

[Prehab26]

Same height as Cannavaro, Baresi, Mascherano to name but a few

Mate. Let's not compare the defensive instincts. Please.

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

Same height as Cannavaro, Baresi, Mascherano to name but a few

Good point mate, although there’s just one small problem. He’s not Baresi, a world class defender that’s pretty much an anomaly and has spent his career defending at a top level - he’s a bang average midfielder who’s spent most of his career playing at a piss poor level in L1 and L2.

Thousands of CB’s in the game to choose from, try and name more than those 3. There’s a reason every CB in the PL is massive.

 

[Ozzymac]

Mate. Let's not compare the defensive instincts. Please.

I wasn't mate. The post i quoted was related to height

 

[Ozzymac]

Good point mate, although there’s just one small problem. He’s not Baresi, a world class defender that’s pretty much an anomaly and has spent his career defending at a top level - he’s a bang average midfielder who’s spent most of his career playing at a piss poor level in L1 and L2.

Thousands of CB’s in the game to choose from, try and name more than those 3. There’s a reason every CB in the PL is massive.

So talk about his ability rather than his height. My point was that height does not neccesarily make a good central defender. There's plenty of tall ones who are pretty crap too

 

[Smug in Boots]

So talk about his ability rather than his height. My point was that height does not neccesarily make a good central defender. There's plenty of tall ones who are pretty crap too

We've had a few over the years ...

 

[Nacho]

Can I add a perspective from the opposition benches to this thread? No offence meant in any of what I have to say so please do not take it the wrong way.

I haven't read 27 pages of this thread but have randomly clicked on a few and read some of the offerings. I can only find two things to object to one of which was somebody saying "we should be beating the likes of Plymouth". We are Argyle and the City is Plymouth for one. It comes across as a bit derogatory with "the like of". The second bit was the Ref today who seemed like a big team supporter at times. I did think some of your player went down easier than a Dockyard Flopsy outside Pompey. Your players stopped doing that in the second half so it became irrelevant. If we are totally honest then we would accept all teams have them.

As for the game itself. It was a decent spectacle and if you were a neutral would have been edge of the seat stuff for a lot of the time. You have a great side there who will win a load more games than they lose. Today just wasn't your's and I think you could still be out there now without a goal. We have all had games like that. The first half was more 50/50 the difference being we took the two chances we had and you didn't. The first goal was worthy of winning any game from Whittaker. The second whilst not as spectacular was still a great finish. Second half you battered us for virtually the whole 45+ minutes. The fact the ball didn't go in the net was more to do with divine intervention than anything else. I have to add to that we were due a turn of fortune and your lads paid the price in full. On another day we would have lost and I have no problem saying that. On another day we should have lost. Today though was our day and it is as simple as that rather than Sunderland suddenly becoming a bad team.

I did read a few posts about whether being in the Prem was better than this league. For what it's worth I always wanted to see my club just once play in the top league in this Country. But, now I'm not so sure. There is far more fun to be had in the Championship that you could never get in the Prem. A good season winning more than you lose is worth more than playing better opposition, mainly financially, and getting shupped week in week out. League one was better than the Prem when we were there for pure entertainment although I'd rather be in this league. Anyway I think you will be in the hunt again this season and wish you well if you would rather be up than here.

We seem to have some games where we're lethal and others where we could play for a week straight without scoring without much in between. Probably a result of having talented but young and inconsistent players.

Can't argue with one team being clinical and the other being wasteful and losing, fair result.

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

So talk about his ability rather than his height. My point was that height does not neccesarily make a good central defender. There's plenty of tall ones who are pretty crap too

But from the pool of CB’s across european football there’s probably 0.1% that are as small as O’nien. The fact he’s being mentioned in the same sentence as one of about 3 defenders to ever win a Ballon D’or is the wildest thing I think I’ve ever read on here, that sh*te is what I expect from the knackers up the road.

Nobody is saying you HAVE to be tall but being tall gives you at least something. As I’ve said before just go and look at the best clubs in the PL to keep it simple;

Saliba 6’4 and Gabriel 6’4.
VVD 6’5 and Konate 6’4. Matip also 6’4.
Van De Ven 6’5 and Romero 6’1.
Dias 6’3, Stones 6’3, akanji 6’1

All of these are playing in teams with midfielders who are also huge. So if we go up not only will be up against teams playing great football but we’ll also get absolutely bullied off the park. We can’t defend a corner against average championship teams never mind brilliant PL players who are all massive compared to our own.

Modern day CB’s are pretty much all tall, quick and good on the ball.