WAR! What is it good for?

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FosseFilberto said:
Will take strong leadership on both sides but there is no alternative ... I never expected to see peace in Northern Ireland in my lifetime... but against all odds, it happened...
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I agree with this. What seems impossible can be achieved, if you have the right people, a strong will and the proper international brokerage.
 
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Libby said:
Not really the same though mate. The two parties in that conflict didn't have the objectives of eliminating the other entirely.
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It wasn't always like that tbh. We can get there again.

I know it doesn't seem like it, but part of the reason we are where we are is because it's been allowed to happen.
 
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duggie2000 said:
The only thing Hamas has achieved is the destruction of Gaza, BUT maybe Gaza was only a pawn is a bid to unite the Arab world in the total destruction of Israel, Russia will support the Arab States as they will effectively be at war with the West and have most of the oil

Russia may then commit all their forces to crush Ukraine, then Poland and the Balkans and possibly Germany, Italy and Greece would be helpless victims and the world would then hold its breath waiting for America to commit to a war in Europe without using Nuclear weapons or just say not our problem any more

China could unite with Russia to take out Japan in retaliation for WW11 or sit on the sidelines and pick over the bones when it is all over

We all know what North Korea will do in the middle of all this carnage

If one nutter pushes a red button then the world will be a desolate wasteland inhabited by a few mutant humans and million of cockroaches, the world will heal itself in a few thousand years but there will probably be nothing to say what existed here in our current era
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Wow
Been a pleasure brothers and sisters
I could see a lot of that happening :(
 
Big Ern said:
Their leader has become a multimillionaire and some of his kids live far from the trouble in southern Israel, make of that what you will.....
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You prompted me to do a little research today after reading your comment, it was also on the back of a so called leader of Hamas saying on tv, no civilians were killed.

Anyway I post up the first video I came to, all I did was type into google 'Hamas Leader' so I've not selected a video due to a particular bias, although that bias may lay within the search engine, I cannot vouch for the leaning of the commentators.

The title certainly said it all, although I accept it could be clickbait...

'Hamas Leaders Live a Life of Luxury'

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Treble said:
It wasn't always like that tbh. We can get there again.

I know it doesn't seem like it, but part of the reason we are where we are is because it's been allowed to happen.
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We could but it's so far away now I just don't see a reasonable and likely path to those sorts of talks anytime in the near future. It would take too much change to happen without nothing ****ing it up and the desire isn't there for that to occur.

I think the target of civilians by Hamas will set the Palestine cause back years tbh, and I can't see any Israeli politician willing to publicly offer any sort of concessions there, even if there was a change in the Palestinian leadership.
 
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Libby said:
We could but it's so far away now I just don't see a reasonable and likely path to those sorts of talks anytime in the near future. It would take too much change to happen without nothing ****ing it up and the desire isn't there for that to occur.

I think the target of civilians by Hamas will set the Palestine cause back years tbh, and I can't see any Israeli politician willing to publicly offer any sort of concessions there, even if there was a change in the Palestinian leadership.
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...but no Israeli politician would ever offer any concessions on the land grab anyway ... which is why we are where we are...
 
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FosseFilberto said:
The IRA assassinated Mountbatten and came close to getting Thatcher ... then there was Bloody Sunday ... don't underestimate the hatred and loathing on both sides...
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I take your point but I still don't think you can compare the two.

The IRA had actual political objectives which could then form a basis for negotiations.

Both sides here are commited to the destruction of the other, where's the basis for negotiations there? The Israel government will continue to take land and Hamas will continue to fire rockets and commit attacks against Israel.
 
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FosseFilberto said:
...but no Israeli politician would ever offer any concessions on the land grab anyway ... which is why we are where we are...
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Well exactly, that's my point.

There's absolutely no chance of any meaningful negotiations at this point in time, and the suggestion that we just need to get the two parties round the table is absurdly naive.
 
FosseFilberto said:
...but no Israeli politician would ever offer any concessions on the land grab anyway ... which is why we are where we are...
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The World failed with this "dispute". When the land grab happened those who set up the situation (like UK) should have stepped in and said move back and stick to the agreement.
Once the grab happened and basically one side became dependant on the others generosity (like now with gas water and food) then there was always going to be trouble.
 
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Libby said:
We could but it's so far away now I just don't see a reasonable and likely path to those sorts of talks anytime in the near future. It would take too much change to happen without nothing ****ing it up and the desire isn't there for that to occur.

I think the target of civilians by Hamas will set the Palestine cause back years tbh, and I can't see any Israeli politician willing to publicly offer any sort of concessions there, even if there was a change in the Palestinian leadership.
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Yeh fair point, I think it will embolden the hardliners and who's going to argue against them.

On the last point I don't think it could ever happen publicly. Would have to happen behind the scenes like before with the Oslo Accord. But for that to happen you need a change of leadership on both sides.

The Israeli government is a mess, they can't hold onto power for more than a year and then collapse, and it's becoming more and more extremist. The Palestinian Authority is weak, corrupt and utterly useless. And the U.S. who really don't have the will to do anything. The whole thing is a far cry from 1990's and imo that's the main problem.
 
Turned over from the news earlier, and it's Jimmy Saville drama, turn over from that and it's the Yorkshire Ripper, turn over again and it's Wayne Couzins ffs. Bloody hell wtf <doh>
 
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