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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Murder of Kriss Donald


    Kriss Donald (2 July 1988 – 15 March 2004) was a 15-year-old white Scottish boy who was kidnapped and murdered in Glasgow in 2004 by a gang of British men of Pakistani origin, some of whom fled to Pakistan after the crime.[1][2][3][4] Daanish Zahid, Imran Shahid, Zeeshan Shahid and Mohammed Faisal Mustaq were later found guilty of racially motivated murder and sentenced to life imprisonment.[2][3] A fifth man, Zahid Mohammed, pleaded guilty to kidnapping, assault and lying to police and was sentenced to five years in prison.[5] He later went on to testify against the other four at their trials.[6]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kriss_Donald
     
    #83181
  2. Didley Squat

    Didley Squat Well-Known Member

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    #83182
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  3. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Who'd have thought it? A little bit of Brexit sense from the Daily Telegraph.....

    The Tory party is dying on the cross of hard Brexit

    Story by Jeremy Warner • Tuesday

    Brexit isn't working. This was the subtext for one of the most curious attempts at Brexit reconciliation yet ventured – last week's cross-party “summit” of leavers and remainers at the 17th-century Ditchley Park country house in Oxfordshire.

    You don't have to accept the spurious precision of recent attempts to estimate the damage done by Brexit to the UK economy – the latest from a Bank of England ratesetter to the effect that it has cost £1,000 per household in lost investment – to know that the glorious cause is in a lot of trouble.

    Brexit hasn't delivered as promised. That's a fact. And how to make it work better remains as elusive as ever. Having taken back control, neither the Government nor Opposition seemingly know what to do with it.

    Even agreeing on what the “national interest” might be in this regard – the vainglorious purpose of last week's conflab – is these days a virtually impossible challenge.

    The more everyone quarrels, the more it dooms the governing Tory Party to electoral oblivion. Having led us into it, the Conservative Party unambiguously owns the property, however much true believers might like to blame others for its now manifest disappointments.

    Oddly unaware of the irony, the purists have become part of the very same British disease they complain of in others – that of excusing themselves for failings by blaming someone else, in this case, some kind of imagined, deep state, establishment conspiracy.

    Whether the assembled at Ditchley Park – the levelling up secretary Michael Gove, New Labour architect Peter Mandelson, and recently sacked Treasury permanent secretary Sir Tom Scholar, among them – came to any conclusion is unreported. Yet somehow I doubt it, for other than to row back on the particularly “hard” form of Brexit the Johnson government engineered, answers are far from obvious.

    This is a definite no, no for the Tory right, which would regard it as a sell out, and – theoretically at least – it has also been ruled out by the Labour opposition. The Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, has committed to staying outside both the EU's single market and its customs union, terrified as he still is of further alienating voters in former red wall constituencies.

    Yet it is the Tories that have most to fear. Once upon a time, the promise of getting Brexit done was electoral gold. But now delivered, the attractions have faded, once again proving the old adage that it is better to travel hopefully than to actually arrive.

    As it is, the Prime Minister's predicament is reminiscent of the schisms that tore the Tory Party apart under John Major in the mid-1990s. This is meant to be the party of enterprise and growth, yet they spend their time obsessing over Europe. Now, as then, the business community looks on in horror – and in so doing finds itself drawn ever more closely to a reformed Labour Party, back then freeing itself of its militant tendency and today of the curse of Corbynism.

    But let us be clear. At root, Brexit was a vote for sovereignty, not for the economy. That it has so far failed on the latter should come as no surprise. There was always bound to be a trade-off between the two; the greater the sovereignty claimed, the more it would damage Britain's relationship with its largest trading partner – the rest of Europe.

    These concerns were widely aired at the time of the referendum, and then again in the subsequent interminable political debate over what form of exit Britain should adopt, but went unheeded.

    Boris Johnson said he was in favour of both having cake and eating it; when warned by commercial lobbies that this would not be possible, he famously said “f… business”. This he proceeded to do. Not least the City, which is fast losing its position as Europe's de facto financial centre.

    EU negotiators were left astonished when at every turn in the trade talks, sovereignty was automatically prioritised over the economy. It was as if UK negotiators were deliberately trying to harm the commercial interest in blind pursuit of impractical isolationism.

    In the event, the triumvirate of promises made on the campaign trail have all fallen flat. More money for the NHS? If there ever was any, it's not made a blind bit of difference. The NHS's problems go much deeper than lack of resources, and in any case have virtually nothing to do with membership of the European Union. In no small measure, current staff shortages are in fact a direct consequence of Brexit.

    As for better control of immigration, despite the new immigration regime, the overall numbers have continued to soar. It's just the makeup which has changed. Take students: the influx from Europe has plummeted, but this has been more than made up for by a surge in numbers from China, the rest of the Far East, Nigeria, and particularly India.

    As advocated by the Home Secretary, Suella Braverman, we could clamp down on that intake if we wanted, but it would be curtains for the charade of one of Britain's most successful industries – tertiary education. I say charade, because in many cases the consequent degrees are bought, not earned through study.

    I doubt that those who saw migration as a Brexit issue were voting for today's reality – that migrants from Europe would simply be replaced by those from the Sub-Continent and Africa.

    Then finally there was the promise that abandoning the protectionist, walled garden of the EU would free the UK up to pursue the growth markets of the future.

    Well, there has admittedly been some growth in trade with the rest of the world, but little which can directly be attributed to Brexit freedoms.

    Those few, genuinely new free trade deals that have since been signed are merely a triumph of presentation over substance. In at least one case, they were downright disadvantageous.

    Foreign negotiators have ruthlessly taken advantage of the Government's needy want for anything that might be passed off as a Brexit dividend.

    It's a long game, the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg insist, and perhaps he's right. But it's been nearly seven years now, which is quite long enough to show some gain. In the long run, we are all dead, said John Maynard Keynes. “Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task, if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is long past the ocean is flat again”. Quite so.

    It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that a softening up of Brexit is coming, whatever the politicians say to the contrary. There is only so long you can keep beating your head against the wall.

    Brexit cannot and should not be undone, but it can be made more comfortable. What we have at the moment is a bed of nails. Unfortunately, the Tories are likely to pay a heavy price for making it.
     

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  4. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    Remember that one as well….they tortured him to death so I believe.
     
    #83184
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  5. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    #83185
    rangercol and Steelmonkey like this.
  6. Wherever

    Wherever Well-Known Member

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    When he has a blocked nose he always sucks a fisherman’s friend
     
    #83186
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  7. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    Fixed that for you
     
    #83187
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  8. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Horrible ****s...

    Donald was taken on a 200-mile journey to Dundee and back while his kidnappers made phone calls looking for a house to take him to. Having no success at this, they returned to Glasgow and took him to the Clyde Walkway, near Celtic Football Club's training ground.[8][10] There, they held his arms (ascertained due to an absence of defensive wounds) and stabbed him multiple times. He sustained internal injuries to three arteries, one of his lungs, his liver and a kidney. He was doused in petrol and set on fire as he bled to death.[8][9][13]

    Don't know how much airtime it got down there, but it was big news up here...although the BBC were criticised for their lack of coverage...

    Peter Fahy, spokesman of race issues for the Association of Chief Police Officers, said that the media as a whole tended to under-report the racist murders of white people, stating "it was a fact that it was harder to get the media interested where murder victims were young white men".[25
     
    #83188
  9. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    I would suggest it got little or no MSM coverage down here……
     
    #83189
  10. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Ukraine war: Zelensky rules out territory deal with Putin in BBC interview

    Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has ruled out giving up any of his country's territory in a potential peace deal with Russia.

    In a BBC interview to mark a year since Russia's full-scale invasion, he warned conceding land would mean Russia could "keep coming back", while Western weapons would bring peace closer.

    Mr Zelensky also said a predicted spring offensive had already begun.

    "Russian attacks are already happening from several directions," he said.

    He does, however, believe Ukraine's forces can keep resisting Russia's advance until they are able to launch a counter-offensive - although he repeated his calls for more military aid from the West.

    "Of course, modern weapons speed up peace. Weapons are the only language Russia understands," Mr Zelensky told the BBC.

    He met UK and EU leaders last week in a bid to bolster international support and to ask for modern arms to defend his country. When Ukraine's president asked for modern fighter jets, UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said "nothing is off the table".

    But Kyiv has become increasingly frustrated with the speed with which Western weapons have arrived. Deliveries of battle tanks - promised last month by a swathe of Western countries, including Germany, the US and the UK - are still thought to be weeks away from arriving on the battlefield.

    President Zelensky also addressed a threat by Belarus leader Alexander Lukashenko to wage war alongside Russian troops from his territory if a single Ukrainian soldier crossed the border.

    "I hope [Belarus] won't join [the war]," he said. "If it does, we will fight and we will survive." Allowing Russia to use Belarus as a staging post for an attack again would be a "huge mistake", he added.

    Russian forces launched part of their full-scale invasion from Belarus 12 months ago. They drove south towards Ukraine's capital Kyiv but were fought back and made to retreat within weeks, after suffering heavy casualties.

    When asked if he was surprised by Russia's tactics in the war, Mr Zelensky described them as "valueless".

    "The way they destroyed everything. If their soldiers received [and carried out] those orders, that means they share those same values."

    Ukrainian data released this week suggested Russian troops in Ukraine were dying in greater numbers this month than at any time since the first week of their invasion. The figures cannot be verified, but the UK's Ministry of Defence said the trends were "likely accurate".

    "Today, our survival is our unity," said Mr Zelensky on how he thought the war will end. "I believe Ukraine is fighting for its survival." His country was moving towards Europe economically, as well as through its values, he said.

    "We chose this path. We want security guarantees. Any territorial compromises would make us weaker as a state."

    "It's not about compromise itself," he said. "Why would we be afraid of that? We have millions of compromises in life every day.

    "The question is with whom? With Putin? No. Because there's no trust. Dialogue with him? No. Because there's no trust."
     
    #83190

  11. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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  12. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

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  13. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Zelensky won't be happy until he gets nuclear weapons from the west
     
    #83193
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  14. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

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    Ukraine had nuclear weapons. They gave them up in exchange for security assurances from the West and Russia that they wouldn't be attacked. Guess how that worked out?
     
    #83194
  15. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    He’s getting everything else so only a matter of time ;)
     
    #83195
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  16. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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  17. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Then we had better give him some back
    Jets first though
    How much money has some parts of the world spent on this clusterfuck so far
     
    #83197
  18. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    German woman warned America about Chinese balloons 40 years ago


     
    #83198
  19. daverangers

    daverangers Well-Known Member

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    I know it has moved on to other topics, but as this thread was started to discuss Brexit just under eight years ago, thought I'd post this here;



    Have to admit, it is clearly a very one sided perspective, but some pretty shocking stats in there. I find it upsetting and unjust that whilst big business have the resources and can afford to relocate to other countries, it is the small business, often family run or sole traders who have been hit hardest, and seen their customer base disappear.
     
    #83199
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  20. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Serbia nationalist protests spike tensions over Russia
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    Police blocked far-right leader Damjan Knezevic as he and other protesters tried to storm the presidency



    Pro-Russian activists in Serbia joined nationalist protesters outside the presidency this week, in the latest indication of rising Russian influence.

    Chanting "no surrender" and "treason", they threatened to riot if Serbia backed an EU plan to normalise relations with Kosovo.

    President Alexander Vucic denounced the protesters as "anti-Serbian".

    The government said it did not believe Moscow stoked the protests but the war has heightened tensions in Belgrade.

    Death threats were made towards the president if he signed a deal on Kosovo and three men have been charged with calling for a violent change of Serbia's constitutional order.

    Among them is Serbian far-right leader Damjan Knezevic, who organised the protests. He has publicly backed Russia's Wagner mercenary group, which has played a big role in Russia's war in Ukraine.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64674133
     
    #83200
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