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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    RESEARCH
    Universal healthcare without the NHS
    DR KRISTIAN NIEMIETZ
    14 DECEMBER 2016

    17 JANUARY 2023



    Poor NHS performance is costing thousands of lives a year

    https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Niemietz-NHS-Interactive.pdf
    DOWNLOAD


    Summary:
    • Despite some relative improvements in the last fifteen years, the National Health Service remains an international laggard in terms of those health outcomes that can be attributed to the healthcare system. In international comparisons of health system performance, the NHS almost always ranks in the bottom third, on a par with the Czech Republic and Slovenia. In a ‘blind test’, in which we look at health outcome data, and guess which data point represents which country, the UK could easily be mistaken for an Eastern European country. We would certainly never mistake the UK for Switzerland or Belgium.
    • Age-standardised survival rates for the most common types of cancer remain several percentage points below rates achieved in most other developed countries, and such differences translate into thousands of lives lost. For example, if the UK’s breast cancer, prostate cancer, lung cancer and bowel cancer patients were treated in the Netherlands rather than on the NHS, more than 9,000 lives would be saved every year. If they were treated in Germany, more than 12,000 lives would be saved, and if they were treated in Belgium, more than 14,000 lives would be saved. A similar picture emerges for a range of other conditions, as well as for more holistic measures of health system performance. For example, the UK has one of the highest rates of avoidable deaths in Western Europe. If this rate were cut to the levels observed in Belgium, more than 10,000 lives would be saved every year. More than 13,000 lives would be saved if the rate were cut to Dutch levels.
    • The one study which seemingly comes to a radically different conclusion is the Commonwealth Fund study, which ranks the NHS as the world’s top performer. Illustrating the dynamics of confirmation bias, the Commonwealth Fund study has therefore acquired the status of a trump card in the British healthcare debate. However, there is only one category in the Commonwealth Fund study which looks at health outcomes, and in that category, the NHS ranks, once again, second to last. Thus, even the preferred study of NHS supporters shows that the NHS is an international laggard in terms of outcomes.
    • The UK spends less on healthcare than many other developed countries, but this must not be mistaken for a sign of superior efficiency. It is mostly the result of crude rationing: innovative medicines and therapies that are routinely available in other high-income countries are often hard to come by in the UK. Any country could keep healthcare spending in check by simply refusing to adopt medical innovation. In more sophisticated estimates of health system efficiency, the NHS ranks, once again, in the bottom third.
    • The NHS is poorly prepared to deal with the financial challenges of an ageing society. This is because, like virtually all health systems in the developed world, it is financed on a pay-as-you-go basis: healthcare costs rise systematically with age, which is why most healthcare spending represents a transfer from the working-age generation to the retired generation. Increasing longevity and low birth rates therefore represent a pincer movement which threatens the system’s financial viability. The fundamental problem is that the NHS (like other health systems) lacks old-age reserves. It should have started building up an old-age reserve fund, analogous to a pension fund, decades ago.
    • While NHS performance looks unimpressive in snapshot cross-country comparisons, it does better on time series. Compared to the 1990s, the NHS has improved both in absolute terms and relative to its peers.
    • Its critics sometimes compare the NHS to a ‘Soviet style’ state monolith: this characterisation is no longer accurate (if it ever was). There have been two major attempts to introduce market mechanisms into the NHS. The first attempt, the ‘internal market’ of the 1990s, did not succeed: the NHS was not yet ready for competition at the time. Important preconditions were lacking, in particular, there was a severe dearth of information about provider performance and quality of care. The second attempt, the ‘quasi-market’ of the 2000s, was a qualified success, because this time the preconditions had already been established.
    • In other policy debates, there is willingness to learn from international best practice, and a general curiosity about successful models abroad. English free schools, for example, were modelled on the Swedish friskolor. Healthcare is the exception to this rule. The healthcare debate remains insular and inward-looking, blighted by a counterproductive tendency to pretend that the only conceivable alternative to the NHS is the American system.
    • It would be far more insightful to benchmark the NHS against social health insurance (SHI) systems, the model of healthcare adopted by Switzerland, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and Israel. Like the NHS, SHI systems also achieve universal access to healthcare, albeit in a different way, namely through a combination of means-tested insurance premium subsidies, community rating and risk structure compensation. Unlike in the US, there is therefore no uninsured population (even homeless people have health insurance), and there is no such thing as a ‘medical bankruptcy’. When it comes to providing high-quality healthcare to the poor, these systems are second to none: in this respect, there is nothing the NHS has achieved which the SHI systems have not also achieved.
    • In terms of outcomes, quality and efficiency, social health insurance systems are consistently ahead of the NHS on almost every available measure. They combine the universality of a public system with the consumer sovereignty, the pluralism, the competitiveness and the innovativeness of a market system. We do not see any one particular country’s health system as a role model, because they all have flaws and irritating aspects of their own. But there are also plenty of interesting lessons to be learned, which we are missing out on by ignoring alternatives to both the NHS and the American system.
    • The Dutch system shows that a successful health system needs no state-owned hospitals, no state hospital planning and no hospital subsidies. The Swiss system shows that even substantial levels of out-of-pocket patient charges need not be regressive, and that people can be trusted to choose sensibly from a variety of health insurance plans. The ‘PKVpillar’ of the German system shows that a healthcare system can be fully prefunded, just like a pension system.
    • The quasi-market reforms of the 2000s can be built upon, to move gradually from the status quo to a pluralistic, consumer-oriented healthcare system. Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) are, in a sense, comparable to insurers, so giving people free choice of CCG would be a necessary (albeit not sufficient) first step towards creating a quasi-SHI system. CCGs’ budgets would then have to correspond closely to the risk profile of the patient population they cover, and this market should also be opened to private non-profit and for-profit insurers. CCGs and non-NHS insurers should be free to offer a variety of health plans, including plans with co-payments and deductibles in exchange for rebates.
     
    #82421
  2. qprbeth

    qprbeth Wicked Witch of West12 Forum Moderator

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    Reason I left ( took early retirement) Stainesy.

    Why wasn't I paid the same as the guy 6 years my junior? Because I wasn't as committed to my job as he was ( you have family and won't work the extra unpaid hours he does). But I am his line manager... and he gets more than me.

    So yes I can Stainsey
     
    #82422
  3. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    So you were in exactly the same job……the fella had less experience than you….and you worked the same contracted hours ?
    Again, if so then it would be illegal to pay you less on the basis of your gender…….so why did you not take action ?
     
    #82423
  4. qprbeth

    qprbeth Wicked Witch of West12 Forum Moderator

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    No I was his line manager.
    He had more promotions/ discretionary pay increases than me.
    He took over my job when left.

    After lockdown they employed a lab manager to take over half of my job, to allow him to do the rest.. its working now.

    Am I bitter...of course not.

    Well actually YES
     
    #82424
  5. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    i get paid more than my manager
    and hes a male
     
    #82425
  6. qprbeth

    qprbeth Wicked Witch of West12 Forum Moderator

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    Why?
     
    #82426

  7. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

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    Beth you’re wasting your time. On a day where a huge news story is where a male using his position of authority to rape and abuse women, admitting to over 40 offences. Where there are a further 800 male police officers are under investigation in the met alone. Also recently a man murdered his girlfriend, killed three kids, oh he also raped the 13 year old, before killing her, but what’s being discussed as a threat to women.. oh yeah trans people as sick perverts might, yes might say they identify as trans to get access to women!! To me, it looks like sick perverts already have the access to victims without having to bother with the trans route.

    Maybe one day there might be a crack down on the abuse by people using their authority, especially when complaints have been made, maybe one day safe guarding of women who suffer domestic abuse might be higher on the priority list, probably not soon though, sadly.
     
    #82427
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  8. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    they based my salary on what i had earned as an hourly paid staff member the four previous years
    i did a lot of hours
    65 to 70 per week
    worked most saturdays
    now i do about 50
    working very few saturdays
    would have been a mug not to sign it
     
    #82428
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  9. Wherever

    Wherever Well-Known Member

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    And you need time to remind us of how many days to Christmas
     
    #82429
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  10. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    Not really answering my question Beth……
     
    #82430
  11. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    340 days to go
    theres a countdown clock somewhere
    getting close
     
    #82431
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  12. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    #82432
    Goldhawk-Road likes this.
  13. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    Thats not what was being discussed here though Wills. More to do with what is bizarrely being suggested in Scotland.

    And please don’t get me started on domestic abuse…from first hand experience the whole experience can be extremely frustrating and emotionally draining for those in authority.
     
    #82433
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
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  14. qprbeth

    qprbeth Wicked Witch of West12 Forum Moderator

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    I cannot like this enough Wills thank you
     
    #82434
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  15. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

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    I’m not gonna get into the ins and outs of the Scotland thing, and not suggesting you at all, but one of the big objections that is mentioned, including on here, against trans is the access to victims. I think today’s news has emphasised access really isn’t an obstacle.

    With regards to what else you mentioned, I can only imagine what you must see through your work, and empathise.
     
    #82435
  16. qprbeth

    qprbeth Wicked Witch of West12 Forum Moderator

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    I complained yes . Went to arbitration, and I was turned down. So I asked to speak to a person on the board, for the reason I was turned down

    I was told ( of the record) I hadn't got enough experience. I should have travelled abroad to gain experience ( which I didn't as I had a family) in other labs ( btw he hadn't and still hasn't).
    I was told I was not as committed as he was, as I had a family and he hadn't.

    And the person then told me I should look for an equivalent job else where if I wanted promotion. Yes obviously I can do that with a family.. so that was the internal review.

    Yes I could kick up an almighty stink...or I could take early retirement. Yes I am a chicken...thanks for reminding me Stainsey...but it was the best for me

    As said I left 18 months later. The guy took over my job ( I suppose on an even higher pay). 18 months ago he had a breakdown and the university split the job in half.

    And the boss who so downgraded me has left to go to USA.


    I am bitter...but karma eh.
     
    #82436
  17. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    It's absolutely not right to make fun of transgender people.
     
    #82437
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  18. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    But it's the proposed Scottish legislation that we were commenting on.
     
    #82438
  19. qprbeth

    qprbeth Wicked Witch of West12 Forum Moderator

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    Thank you Col...it is
     
    #82439
  20. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    “Were UK patients with lung, breast, prostate, and bowel cancer treated under the German system, around 12,000 lives would be saved every year.
    Under Belgium’s system, it would be 14.000



     
    #82440

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