World Cup

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Cityzen said:
Whyb should we ban Remembrance Day Service in our own country? A ridiculous comparison. Should France ban Bastille Day?
Click to expand...

I didn’t say it should be banned. I think it should go ahead.

But it’s a social issue isn’t it? Aren’t wars caused by politics? Its an example to use that people are rightly uncomfortable with, but boiled down, what’s the difference between this and human rights?
 
  • Like
Reactions: PLT
Drew said:
I didn’t say it should be banned. I think it should go ahead.

But it’s a social issue isn’t it? Aren’t wars caused by politics? Its an example to use that people are rightly uncomfortable with, but boiled down, what’s the difference between this and human rights?
Click to expand...
It’s not a social issue at all. It’s remembrance for the dead. It’s just getting hijacked for other reasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stockholm Tiger, Benjo, Cambstiger and 1 other person
Drew said:
I didn’t say it should be banned. I think it should go ahead.

But it’s a social issue isn’t it? Aren’t wars caused by politics? Its an example to use that people are rightly uncomfortable with, but boiled down, what’s the difference between this and human rights?
Click to expand...

A lot. You are remembering people who gave their lives so you are free to spout your beliefs and follow your way of life. If the other lot of won their would be no question of any right, human LGBTQ+ and no question of multicultural diversity.
A completely ridiculous analogy. No liberation day parades in Paris, no Victory Day Parades in Moscow? No daily playing of the last post at the Menin Gate?
Anyone who equates a Remembrance Day with human rights and thinks people are rightly uncomfortable with them needs to take a long, hard look at themselves.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Cambstiger, Trumpton Tiger. and Phinius T Bookbinder
Cityzen said:
A lot. You are remembering people who gave their lives so you are free to spout your beliefs and follow your way of life. If the other lot of won their would be no question of any right, human LGBTQ+ and no question of multicultural diversity.
A completely ridiculous analogy. No liberation day parades in Paris, no Victory Day Parades in Moscow? No daily playing of the last post at the Menin Gate?
Anyone who equates a Remembrance Day with human rights and thinks people are rightly uncomfortable with them needs to take a long, hard look at themselves.
Click to expand...

You always misread my posts.

Im not uncomfortable with rememberance day. I think it’s a very worthwhile thing and you’re right it’s correct to remember.

When I said people are rightly uncomfortable with it, I was talking about the fact people are uncomfortable recognising it’s a society event and if protests about human rights enter the discussion of what is and isn’t allowed, so should this.

You are looking at Rememberence Day as something I’m arguing against. I’m absolutely not. I’m taking the argument to it’s logical end point.

Say a war erupts in Qatar about LGBT issues, or as is happening in Iran a revolution is underway about women’s rights and it turns into a war. Do you remember the dead in a rememberence style day in the future or do you ignore it because ‘it’s politics’?

My argument is where DO you draw the line? It’s a nonsense to say football shouldn’t be entering into society events because it already does and it has done for years, whether everyone agrees with something happening or not.
 
Drew said:
You always misread my posts.

Im not uncomfortable with rememberance day. I think it’s a very worthwhile thing and you’re right it’s correct to remember.

When I said people are rightly uncomfortable with it, I was talking about the fact people are uncomfortable recognising it’s a society event and if protests about human rights enter the discussion of what is and isn’t allowed, so should this.

You are looking at Rememberence Day as something I’m arguing against. I’m absolutely not. I’m taking the argument to it’s logical end point.

Say a war erupts in Qatar about LGBT issues, or as is happening in Iran a revolution is underway about women’s rights and it turns into a war. Do you remember the dead in a rememberence style day in the future or do you ignore it because ‘it’s politics’?

My argument is where DO you draw the line? It’s a nonsense to say football shouldn’t be entering into society events because it already does and it has done for years, whether everyone agrees with something happening or not.
Click to expand...

“When I said people are rightly uncomfortable with it, I was talking about the fact people are uncomfortable recognising it’s a society eventand if protests about human rights enter the discussion of what is and isn’t allowed, so should this.” Why would any normal, rational person be uncomfortable recognising it is a society event? We are recognising people who gave their lives for this country. How the Qataris and Iranians choose to commemorate their fallen is none of our business just as how we remember ours is our business. Only in this country would some sad people even be discussing and comparing these things.
 
Cityzen said:
“When I said people are rightly uncomfortable with it, I was talking about the fact people are uncomfortable recognising it’s a society eventand if protests about human rights enter the discussion of what is and isn’t allowed, so should this.” Why would any normal, rational person be uncomfortable recognising it is a society event? We are recognising people who gave their lives for this country. How the Qataris and Iranians choose to commemorate their fallen is none of our business just as how we remember ours is our business. Only in this country would some sad people even be discussing and comparing these things.
Click to expand...

FIFA consider the poppy a political statement, they fine us every time we wear them.
 
Cityzen said:
“When I said people are rightly uncomfortable with it, I was talking about the fact people are uncomfortable recognising it’s a society eventand if protests about human rights enter the discussion of what is and isn’t allowed, so should this.” Why would any normal, rational person be uncomfortable recognising it is a society event? We are recognising people who gave their lives for this country. How the Qataris and Iranians choose to commemorate their fallen is none of our business just as how we remember ours is our business. Only in this country would some sad people even be discussing and comparing these things.
Click to expand...

That, again, isn’t what I’m saying.

People (you) are uncomfortable with this very conversation BECAUSE they don’t see Remembrance Day as something that should be up for discussion. It’s a worthy cause about people who made the ultimate sacrifice.

But you can’t say it’s not a society event because it is. It’s a really worthwhile one, but it’s still about something that happened in society. It was still fuelled by politics. Hitler’s policies were politics. We rightfully fought against them.

Is Qatar’s politics much different to Hitler?

My point being, as soon as you declare that football shouldn’t be involved in society, where do you draw the line. I think LGBT rights are worthwhile and people have died for it. Why shouldn’t I, if I was a footballer, be able to honour that if poppies are allowed?

Anyway, it’s not up to me or you or anyone. Basically what I’m saying is FIFA need to understand that they can’t have their cake and eat it. They need to make some decisions and realise that is often complicated and doesn’t always go with the money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sir Cheshire Ben
Drew said:
That, again, isn’t what I’m saying.

People (you) are uncomfortable with this very conversation BECAUSE they don’t see Remembrance Day as something that should be up for discussion. It’s a worthy cause about people who made the ultimate sacrifice.

But you can’t say it’s not a society event because it is. It’s a really worthwhile one, but it’s still about something that happened in society. It was still fuelled by politics. Hitler’s policies were politics. We rightfully fought against them.

Is Qatar’s politics much different to Hitler?

My point being, as soon as you declare that football shouldn’t be involved in society, where do you draw the line. I think LGBT rights are worthwhile and people have died for it. Why shouldn’t I, if I was a footballer, be able to honour that if poppies are allowed?

Anyway, it’s not up to me or you or anyone. Basically what I’m saying is FIFA need to understand that they can’t have their cake and eat it. They need to make some decisions and realise that is often complicated and doesn’t always go with the money.
Click to expand...

You really are clueless and coming out with stupid statements. Just be grateful people like my parents gave up 6 years of their lives, and other lost theirs, to ensure you had the freedom to spout your drivel. Should every event be cancelled round te World be cancelled because politics was involved?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Trumpton Tiger.
Cityzen said:
You really are clueless and coming out with stupid statements. Just be grateful people like my parents gave up 6 years of their lives, and other lost theirs, to ensure you had the freedom to spout your drivel. Should every event be cancelled round te World be cancelled because politics was involved?
Click to expand...

No, thats what I’m saying!

I’m saying that FIFA can’t do that because it’s impossible. You’ve focussed on how angry you are that I’ve said they should cancel Remembrance Day, when I have done no such thing.

Im arguing they need to decide where they stand on things, because like Remembrance Day, football is already part of the world.
 
Drew said:
Im sorry but this is absolutely impossible.

If a player gets racially abused on the pitch, would you expect him to ignore it in case it’s ‘talking about race issues’

What about LGBT players at this World Cup? Are they and their teammates supposed to be quiet about homophobia in case they are seen to be ‘woke’?

Players, authorities, coaches, managers, fans are all part of society which is ever changing around the world. They shouldn’t have to be silent on oppression, especially if it affects them directly.

Does a ban on social issues cover Rememberance Day services? Where do we draw the line? All religious festivals mentions banned?

The answer here is FIFA growing a spine and coming down on one side or another about a subject, rather than never opening it in the first place. It’s open, it affects fans, players, coaches, owners etc etc.

Football can’t hide from society.
Click to expand...
No, not at all. If a player is subject to racism or homophobia then deal with it appropriately. Totally different issue to wearing armbands, emblems, pissy gestures etc etc. It really shouldn't be so difficult
 
Wonder if Saudi Arabia will be awarded a World Cup.Apparently it is Islamophobia to want them to serve alcohol. Doesn’t seem to be a problem for Muslim shopkeepers in this country to sell it. No one is asking Muslims to drink it. According to their spokesman everyone is welcome. Apart from those who want a drink as they are told if they don’t like it stay away.
Presumably he won’t object to schools, cafes etc providing halal meat without informing anyone to cater to Muslims. Surely if they don’t like it the could stay away?

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...tial-hosts-boozy-fans-stay-home-football-news
 
bradymk2 said:
it is political
baffling how you can't see it
Click to expand...

Wouldn’t expect you to approve of it. Maybe something commemorating the IRA would be more acceptable to you?
Every commemoration around the world should be problematical in that case.
 
Cityzen said:
Wouldn’t expect you to approve of it. Maybe something commemorating the IRA would be more acceptable to you?
Every commemoration around the world should be problematical in that case.
Click to expand...

i didn't say i disapprove
im just saying it is political
i do approve of it actually
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back