Well there's a big obvious answer to what doetmund cannot offer anyone..... trophies. Bayern are utterly dominant and dortmund's more senior players are a pile of ****e. They win shag all and never will cos they keep doing the same things over and over. It's this simple. City want that cl badly. Bellingham can buy into that. Cheslea can offer the sun moon and stars so thier new owner can have shiny things (this will implode on him inevitably) Real cannot offer him an assured first team berth as they already have 2 top top cms thst are young. Barca have even younger top top cms. Lfc can offer the lad 200k a week max and can't afford the top end fee unless the rumours of a lower up front release are true. If the fee is 120mil (and dortmind want people to think it is) then we are out. Full stop. If its that all bar city and cheslea are out imo.
Contending doesn't have to mean winning every final They were still in those finals last year and still got cl qualification. 250mil net spend later and they are actually a worse side lol.
My thinking is he went to Dortmund as a kid and they have made him a big name, two or three years more with them can only make him bigger. Bad part of that is Dortmund's strategy (and need) of funding the club with the sales of players they make.
People go to dortmund as a stepping stone. He'll only stagnate there. Already too easy a league and the cl experience has already been gleaned as much as possible. Same as haaland's grand plan. The next move.up is to really compete at the business end under the pressure of "contending" 2 or 3 more seasons fancying about against the lower reaches of German football and playing bayern twice a season isn't going to bring him any further along. Dortmund go out and get past their best players (hummels) or players who are not up to the job (can for example) Their teams have been jekel and hyde. Some top talents and some ****e. It's great to have that relationship with agents to be a pass the player on club but in the end they are not actually building to a real challenge to bayern. Ffs look at the state of bayern today with mane. Dortmund are still not top and only a couple points ahead of the worst bayern side in years (what were they thinking buying mane as a striker)
I really haven't seen any BL this season which is odd for me especially as it's being shown on terrestrial TV (i keep missing it for some reason). I thought Mane started well at Bayern but have heard nothing since.
My little meanderings on moving to a club fir the right reasons. My first thought, is regular first team football. Will he get it at City or Chelsea probably not. If you want to progress you've got to be playing. If he came to Liverpool I think we'd be looking at building the midfield around him, at City he'd be just another 100mil buy, **** knows what Chelsea would do with him. We've seen plenty of players move to "big" clubs only to waste the best years of their career sat on the bench. Especially younger lads who get a bit over excited. As either everything it depends on what your end game is. Does he want to finish his career with 20 medals pots if cash, but have been an unused sub in every final. Or would he prefer to end his career with 5 medals just one pot of cash, but have scored the winner in a final? Obvious this us all guess work and soothsayer, but its my little thoughts.
Started fine, but now caught up in the general malaise regarding the team as a whole and the uncertainty around Nagelsmann and the board.
Similar to what I was going to say. The right reasons will depend on the player, but for Bellingham I would say it would be to go somewhere where he can play regularly, develop his game more, play with good players, learn from the manager and challenge for trophies. You could also look at where the money's come from. I've already essentially said that I think City would be a good move for him as well. With Chelsea I would currently be more suspicious about their ability to develop him, as well as seeing how well they do on the pitch.
Yep. Dortmund have reached a level as the second best team in Germany and it's difficult to see that really changing for the positive in the near future. It wouldn't be the worst career move for Bellingham to stay there a while longer, but he'll probably outgrow them at some point.
In the end if we study the most successful players they get to the sharp end quickly and adapt. You've identified who the wheat and chaff get sorted at big clubs. a kid can be bought and benched very easily and vanish so the game is about being ready. you are absolutely on the money. I would say that everyone thinks they can do it, and when a player knows they are good enough they will go for the biggest return. Lets look at a few examples: Drinkwater (yes I know lol) this guy was a league winner and "hero" he couldn't turn the move to cheslea down. he ended his career to go there. he barely every played after making that move. he still in theory can say he's won the fa cup with chelsea and has a big old bank balance. I'd contend he probably knew he'd be bit part but felt he might get 10 games a season or something and was happy to take the cash Werner - with respect a german international with CL experience and a goal scoring record. at 24 he's more than reached the end of his developmental cycle with leipzig. He's gone to cheslea and got given "some" but not a "great deal" of patience and frnakly he let missing the target and pressure get to him. at 24 he couldn't wait longer. he move to the biggest wage club, now is back at leipzig and not in german team. Haaland - The grand plan at play. he's been looked at by clubs at molde but has gone into the redbull route with a very money hungry father and agent who have planned the big pay days out. I doubt say Man utd seriously approached that camp initially but it was said OGS knew about this kid at molde and could have gone after him. The salzburg move was first, then onto dortmund with a very much carefully managed deal that advantaged the camp massively when it came to the big sell. The kid delivers a goal a game at each stage and is playing CL with dortmund. Theres literally nothing but rinse and repeat for him there. the camp get the first MASSIVE pay off and he gets 375k a week. If this doesn't work out they have all made huge profit and over a career his takings already represent ROI for all.. If it does they will make an absolute killing in 5 years. Importantly he is now at the coal face of trophy winning and can "make his legacy" I'm willing to bet anyone that haaland will move on a free at the end of current city contract as the pep era will be over and INEVITABLY there will be a massive pay day in it for him unless city do a PSG (mbappe money) touchameni - again on the rise. Bordaeux to monaco to real madrid in the space of 4 season and is now only 22. again.. clearly planned out, clearly he was ready at each step and took the exposure and experience in this stride now first choice currently at centre of park for real. Unlike some however is is reputedly only on about 140k a week at real. clearly he is where he wanted to be and made a direct choice between LFC (supposedly) and Real as in this case wages wouldn't be a factor. Mbappe. Monaco to PSG. Then stays at PSG. He started at monaco and clearly PSG broke FFP rules to get him for thier vanity project. He's delivered **** all at this point as the domestic titles are pointless (even though psg are that bad they don't even assure that) . In the CL hes played and scored by PSG keep losing at the later stages. he's courted Real and then bottled it and took what amounts to a massive FFP breach in wages of 1mil a week. He's clearly chosen money over winning things. PSG is a retirement home that ended neymars career and now mbappe will be rich but have only his french national side expolits as his legacy (which are not really consistent either) I sincerely doubt werner will not be talking at the end of said career about his CL and super cup medal and world club medal. Clearly a huge success when you are retired plus a big bank balance. He was found wanting. IMO no player thinks "oh i might not be ready" cos they wouldn't get out of bed. Bellingham in on the path. Out of birmingham as fast as he could (irrespective of the route or favour he did or didn't do the club), to dortmund and obviously no intent to sign a new deal there. He's established himself as key for dortmund and has played in europe for 2 season thus bringing himself on. He's got his shot ant england as well. Its crystal clear there no more to get out of dormund and the time has come for him to sink or swim at the coal face of trophy winning. Very few think like alan shearer did and head for their home club and win **** all as a result (despite the massive pay off), very few have done what kane has done as few few are as badly advised when they are on "the path" Its clear to me bellinghams next move is not about fans or nice managers, it weon't be delayed for fear he's not ready. it will be about winning things. He has to actually believe he will make a huge difference to any side he plays in or he'd not have got so far and frankly he has to think that he gets this big choice maybe twice in his career. If you are offered city and 350k a week and you look and see their trophy haul and Guardiola then that's a no brainer. If you are offered LFC at 200k a week and look at klopp and his trophy haul you might ask for 350k a week but you won't just take 200k. If you are offered chelsea you look at their record over past years and the massive spending and ask for 450k a week LOL If offered real madrid I think he'd have to be confident that he can push past Camavinga and take a regualr slot in that midfield once modric and kross are done. Again 350k a week is possible. My point is really this; Lets not kid ourselves that if we are offering half the wages or not meeting dortmund's clause that this is going to happen just cos we would like it to.
I understand what your saying, it may be easier to leave Liverpool out of it as you seem to be stuck on he's definitely not coming here. If your talking about pay days. He might get 3? In his career, or he might go to city get a massive deal and sit on the bench, in 5 years time he's another odegard. Made the wrong choice, wasted those development years and having to not exactly start again, but the rep isn't what it was. Or if we use odegard as an example he coukd of come to us, been a main stay of our midfield and now be being courted for a massive deal? To be fair what ever any player does, they are rolling the dice, I dont blame them for seeking the short term payoff
Odengaard is a great example. He was never ready but as the hottest of hot properties he was touted round europe like a hero as a child on planes visiting this and that and plumped for real cos they flew in on a private jet etc. I actually doubt if odengaard joined us he's have done any better. IMO he still looks light weight and flaky although he improve slightly this season over last. He was linked to dortmund as well and probably should have gone that route.
But in that situation everyone thought we were over paying and Southampton were thrilled. But what if we bid £100m for Bellingham and Dortmund say nah as City and others pay £150m. We won't even get the chance to discuss terms with the player imo
but how much difference was there in the wages? we don't actually know that do we? Did vvd turn down 300k a week to take 180k a week? I don't know. Maybe theres an article out there?
You said everything I was thinking last night but was too tired to put it down coherently. You've articulated it much better.
