Off Topic Trevor Sinclair

I actually came on to say initially that I don’t agree with what what Sinclair did and I still don’t. What I did do is explore why that might be a thought pattern. Being bluntly honest for me I don’t like the idea of monarchy and privilege and therefore know very little about the goings on of the royal family day to day and I’m not very patriotic so it doesn’t really impact me. Others are upset about it and it matters a lot, maybe it triggers grief for their own elders, maybe it’s related to being in the forces I’ve no idea, but there’s a lot of emotion but that doesn’t mean I should have to change my views even if most people don’t agree. People have different experiences and different places. I do have issues with the actions of some royal members but it isn’t the right time to say it so I haven’t but I do wish we hadn’t got the next one lined up so quick and I don’t want to fund it. That’s me. Like it or don’t but I’m not here to deliberately upset anyone. I’d say there’s more personal stuff towards me than me to anyone else (except the mag). My boy is just what I believe. It’s isn’t party political it’s my views but the constitution is political and there’s change going on. The queen thread is for the boys for the queen. I removed on good suggestion anything I thought might be insensitive in that thread.

 

Thank you for that action on your behalf, you have to serve to understand the effect

 

There are serving servicemen who couldn't care less about the Monarchy.

There are also many, who've never served, who care just as much as the most patriotic of servicemen.

It's nonsense to say every living serviceman joined up for love of the Queen ...

... and incorrect to say they care more than anyone else.

 

How many? Name them

 

Of course, just wait there and I'll get back to you.

Perhaps you've met every serviceman and can swear they all joined up purely for their love of the Monarchy.

Regardless of that, joining up doesn't you care more than a binman or call centre worker.

 

[QUOTE="Smug in Boots, post: 16134620, member: 1001969"]Of course, just wait there and I'll get back to you.

Perhaps you've met every serviceman and can swear they all joined up purely for their love of the Monarchy.[/QUOTE]

I look forward to your response. Give me a timeframe for it

 

I look forward to your response. Give me a timeframe for it[/QUOTE]

Any mention of the Queen here ...

... I only got as far as holidays, housing, salary, benefits, travel etc.

https://www.goarmy.com/benefits.html

Or here,
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/reasons-for-joining-the-military

"Everyone has their own motivation for joining the military. Here are 25 of the most common reasons people join:"

Don't try spinning the line that servicemen care more about the Queen than anyone else or that it's the reason for joining.

"We offer 30 vacation days, comprehensive health care, housing, cash allowances to cover the cost of living, money for education, family services, and even career support after you serve."

 

you need to check first with your pet poodle to find out who he has banned on which threads,all because he can't win an argument and hates looking the fool he is without deleting posts, maybe then some of us could respond on the threads you ask questions on but get no reply. Banning posters because he is made to look a fool on arguments he is losing is pretty petty, i expect he will delete this as well

 

Any mention of the Queen here ...

... I only got as far as holidays, housing, salary, benefits, travel etc.

https://www.goarmy.com/benefits.html

Or here,
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/reasons-for-joining-the-military


Don't try spinning the line that servicemen care more about the Queen than anyone else or that it's the reason for joining.

"We offer 30 vacation days, comprehensive health care, housing, cash allowances to cover the cost of living, money for education, family services, and even career support after you serve." [/QUOTE]
Not sure how to respond to this. Ive spoken previously to many in the American forces but its been a while. Not sure what their allegiance to H M Queen are.

 

I would argue that you can be very patriotic and love your country...but it does not mean you necessarily revere the Saxe-Coburg Gotha's

 

I don't think there's any argument, you're quite right.

WW2 was a fight to preserve democracy not the Monarchy.

That doesn't make anyone Republicans, it's not a choice between the two.

 

Exactly! In that same way that: you can love your country without being xenophobic, racist, or bigoted; expressing left wing views doesn't automatically make you a righteous or kind person; admiring the Royal Family doesn't mean that you are incapable of critical thought; you can be opposed to the Royal Family without taking every opportunity to denigrate them or make snide remarks.

Incidentally, why do you insist on referring to the Royal Family by their former, Germanic, name?

 

I wouldn’t join up because most conflicts are over money, domination, fuel to back the USA who are vile or because of the knock on effect of a previous bad decision. Hitler invading places to promote fascism was justified of course. Most others are questionable. That doesn’t mean I don’t respect those who have fought and especially watched friends die and suffered trauma who are the victims of it all. I have family members and friends in the same boat. I can imagine that if you’ve pledged allegiance to the queen and lost people it can be a trigger hearing people say negative things about war, patriotism and monarchy so I kind of get it but at the same time I find the whole concept of them bit weird. My brain doesn’t see logic in any of it and maybe it needs saying. Critical thinking is almost inevitably a healthy thing or we might as well be computers.

 

Why do you assume that people who are patriotic or pro-Monarchy haven't applied critical thought?
I have set out why I think a constitutional monarchy is better than an elected head of state on these boards several times. My conclusion is the result of critical thought.
Here's some critical thinking for you: why is disliking someone on the basis of their class (not that I believe the class system exists) any different to disliking someone on the basis of their race? Its still bigotry- it's still seeking to make divisions between people on the basis of something they have no control over.

I anticipate that your response will reference wealth but I'm not talking about your personal view, I'm trying to examine attitudes to monarchy and 'the upper classes' in general.

 

I thought the late Duke of Edinburgh was a funny bloke tbh…would have happily bought him a curry

I dont even think you’re offended

my money is on your real name being ‘Karen’

you fackin slaaag

 

One of my favourite cousins is called Karen, I object to her name being used as a slur!

 

You and others imply making left wing views are simply because they are left wing.,I’m following no script and don’t yearn for old Russia. Of course you can think critically and want the royals but also 15 minutes of TV and you’re witnessing love the royals kind control. Some on here go on like Nicholas Witchell tbh. What if your critical thinking gets you to the point where the next man appears, someone I don’t respect but won’t go into detail at this point, but to me the inherited follow on and the fact we have no choice or say over at this point I find incredibly frustrating.

 

Why do you imply anyone criticising the monarchy is just being a lefty. My objection is this. That those making decisions over us and those in positions of power and control are predominantly from outside of the majority and where wealth, especially the access to private schools and currently accessing university gives them an infuse advantage to retain wealth. There are exceptions in all things - Ton Benn being a good example, even Blair to an extent with their leaning towards redistribution, but if democracy is to be effective people need to have more executive power. The experiences of someone help shape decisions.

 

What a numpty you are

 

Cant disagree with that tbh