Sorry Goldie the first American bombing in Germany was in January 1943 on the submarine bases in Wilhelmshaven - Stalingrad started in August 1942.
Off Topic The Politics Thread
- Thread starter Stroller
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
I have no hatred of anyone Col - I take umbridge to a nation which thinks it has a divine right to dominate World politics but that is all.
My Dad was in the North African campaign and they met up with the Americans in Tunisia at the end of it - up to that time the Americans had not seen a single German, having come through Morocco and Algeria (their only beligerant there having been some small detachments of the French Foreign Legion).
My Grandad always had a lot of respect for the Germans he fought in North Africa. Said they were gentleman and much like him and his mates.
Said the Italians out there were **** scared and would surrender at the drop of a hat…….hated the Japanese till his dying day as he saw with his own eyes the appalling atrocities they carried out.
Sad that war makes people hate each other.
No, flying fortresses bombed Wilhelmshaven in July 41. And the US Eighth Airforce was activated in the UK in Feb 41. Which makes your claim that the US only entered the war in Europe when it was clear the Soviets would win, utter nonsense.
I’m a bit confused by this thread. Everybody’s guilty so……what does that mean for the Ukraine situation?
Let’s all agree that the west has no moral authority to tell Putin (it’s not the ‘Russians’, it’s Putin and his cronies who are the problem) what to do……but who gives a **** about ‘moral authority’ whatever that is? To borrow Stainsey’s favourite word, just more hypocritical bullshit.
So, for presumably entirely selfish and pragmatic reasons, we don’t want Russia to invade Ukraine, or bully it into giving up territory. But we don’t want to use any force in doing that, because the embarrassment, let alone the unpopularity, caused by British/American/French whoever soldiers shedding blood would be too politically damaging to our magnificent leaders, who know that, in a vote on the subject, their electors would throw the Ukrainians under a bus in a heartbeat. Plus, directly engaging with Russian forces could end up out of control very quickly….
So what to do? Here’s some ideas…..rather than keep on playing at this ‘diplomacy’ bollocks make it abundantly clear to Putin that aggression will result in the following, really fast…..
- cutting off of Russian gas exports, western powers to guarantee those countries depending on this energy source alternative supplies. This is Putin’s biggest weapon, apart from his ancient and unstable nuclear ones
- immediate confiscation of all property and resources owned by associates of Putin/Russian oligarchs who cooperate with him held overseas, especially in the U.K. - houses, companies, shell companies, bank accounts, safety deposit boxes…..**** banking laws
- an immediate promise to fully resource, for decades, all Ukrainian resistance forces in the event of invasion
- massive ramped up support for the opposition in Russia, and especially free/underground Russian media. Promise to tell ordinary Russians about the kids of their leaders going to school in London and Geneva, where their public servants have multi million dollar homes…
The rules don’t count any more, so let’s get on with it.
Let’s all agree that the west has no moral authority to tell Putin (it’s not the ‘Russians’, it’s Putin and his cronies who are the problem) what to do……but who gives a **** about ‘moral authority’ whatever that is? To borrow Stainsey’s favourite word, just more hypocritical bullshit.
So, for presumably entirely selfish and pragmatic reasons, we don’t want Russia to invade Ukraine, or bully it into giving up territory. But we don’t want to use any force in doing that, because the embarrassment, let alone the unpopularity, caused by British/American/French whoever soldiers shedding blood would be too politically damaging to our magnificent leaders, who know that, in a vote on the subject, their electors would throw the Ukrainians under a bus in a heartbeat. Plus, directly engaging with Russian forces could end up out of control very quickly….
So what to do? Here’s some ideas…..rather than keep on playing at this ‘diplomacy’ bollocks make it abundantly clear to Putin that aggression will result in the following, really fast…..
- cutting off of Russian gas exports, western powers to guarantee those countries depending on this energy source alternative supplies. This is Putin’s biggest weapon, apart from his ancient and unstable nuclear ones
- immediate confiscation of all property and resources owned by associates of Putin/Russian oligarchs who cooperate with him held overseas, especially in the U.K. - houses, companies, shell companies, bank accounts, safety deposit boxes…..**** banking laws
- an immediate promise to fully resource, for decades, all Ukrainian resistance forces in the event of invasion
- massive ramped up support for the opposition in Russia, and especially free/underground Russian media. Promise to tell ordinary Russians about the kids of their leaders going to school in London and Geneva, where their public servants have multi million dollar homes…
The rules don’t count any more, so let’s get on with it.
Great post…….do you think your suggestions might happen ?
Btw, been using your point about Taiwan to more than a few people. Most, like me, hadn’t thought of it…but makes perfect sense when they do
That says autumn 1942. And Flying Fortresses were used a couple of months earlier than that in July. And that was when they flew missions. Preparation took months before that to early 1942, and that is the date you should be taking as to when the US entered the European war. Just admit you were wrong and we'll move on.
Do you seriously think that all or most of this isn't being discussed?
Oh, and why presume people are having a go at the Russian people?
I have huge respect for the Russian people.
We all know it's all down to Putin and his ilk.
Also, I'm pretty sure everyone, bar Cologne, has agreed that there is fault on all sides to varying degrees.
This would make sense if Kiev really was the target Stan. Russia is not interested in taking over the Ukraine because they know they do not have the resources to maintain an unpopular occupation of the place which would stretch their resources for years. Their nightmare is the possibility of US forces being stationed there directly on their doorstep, and it is an understandable fear. Moscow wants to force Western countries to finally sit down for negotiations on issues of European security, and this strategy is bringing some success in as much as that the West is now engaging with Russia on this theme for the first time since 1991. How can you always depict the Russians as the aggressors when they are only moving troops around within their own borders which any country has a sovereign right to do, when Nato is creeping closer and closer to their doorstep ?
It might be being discussed, but it’s not being made public, unless I’ve missed something. And it’s telling Putin what we will do that is important, not discussing it behind closed doors.
It’s not ‘the Russians’ it’s Putin. You are a real patsy mate, fellow traveller with a despot. If Russia had not fallen into the grip of a tinpot wannabe dictator we would be laughing at the idea of Russia/West aggression, and the average Russian would be having a much more comfortable life. But you probably think that the looting of the old Soviet state and its replacement by a mafia cabal is a CIA plot.
We are arguing about dates here Goldie, and your earlier claim of 1941 was way up the creek ! These are the facts of the article which you can read as well as I. Also you are presuming the beginning of the German setback in the USSR as beginning with Stalingrad, but it was earlier than this when the siege of Leningrad stalled - from that moment the writing was on the wall. However all this arguing about dates is getting us nowhere and simply boring everyone else.
Chinese having a go at annexing a bit of Nepal as we speak.
That was released in a report last week...in a region where the border is very blurry.
The locals still want free trade with the Chinese across the border, which is marked by posts several kilometers apart.
Apparently they thought the Chinese had been building on the Nepalese side of the border, but it was actually on the Chinese side!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-60288007
Putin has served as president in Russia since 2012 and previously from 1999 until 2008 - the expansion of NATO (against understandings made with Gorbachov) started previous to this. Also in September 2001 Putin addressed the Bundestag (German Parliament) in this address he stressed the importance of the enlargement of the EU and called for building a peacefull and democratic European home, which could not survive without friendly contacts and close partnership with Russia. he did all this in German which he speaks fluently. He also stated ''History will take a new turn if Russia, China, Germany and the other NATO countries, the Arab world and the United States together vanquish international terrorism'', reporters at the time claimed he was the first statesman to make such a union a tangible prospect. He was essentially opening the door to a new future in international relations - unfortunately this offer was ignored at the time, and the USA has been ignoring this offer of treating Russia as an equal partner ever since.
I said the end of 1941, and US troops and aircraft were in the UK by Jan/Feb 1942.
It wasn't even close to being clear that the Soviets would win the war in Jan/Feb 1942 but don't let the truth get in the way of your blind anti-American fantasies.
I tell you what we'll just let others on here read the article and make up their own minds if they have the time, because this is getting us nowhere.
I rest my case.
Putin speaks German fluently because he was a KGB officer in the de facto occupied East Germany. As I’m sure you know. I thought you were some kind of left wing communitarian libertarian, not a Stalinist.
Last edited: