Transfer Rumours transfer thread fact and fiction

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humanbeingincroydon said:
And that's the issue, what they effectively did when they signed him was make themselves what Porto, Valencia and Wolves have all been at various points in the last decade - a shop window for an agent first, a team second

And here's the other thing with that: based on their business model they were already flush that season, because that summer they spent the Pulisic cash on Brandt, Hazard and re-signing Hummels, but also had plenty in the coffers from selling Diallo to PSG, Alcacer to Villarreal, Weigl to Benfica and Philipp to Dynamo Moscow - and it has to be said that they still have most of that cash in their coffers even now, as what they paid for Bellingham last summer and Kobel this summer is offset by the Alcacer and Weigl fees, so they had at least €50m kicking about before selling Sancho this summer

In other words, while at the time they signed Haaland it seemed like it would fit in their business model (even though it fits Mino "****" Raiola's far, far better than it fits theirs) at this point of time he's a timebomb on their business model because he's leaving next summer and, unlike Dembele who they were able to jack up the fee to ridiculous levels when Barca came for him after a season, they have no room to negotiate

And it has to be said Haaland wasn't the only example of this that season either, as Hakimi being loaned in was also a bad fit for Dortmund's model since all that would ever happen is Los Ladrones would either have a player ready for their first team, or an increased profit when they sold him (as happened) based off his time at Dortmund
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He's not a timebomb, at all. They'll do what they're doing with Sancho: sell and replace.
They attract top prospects entirely because they're willing to do what they're doing.
Give them game time, improve them, sell them on at a profit to top clubs and repeat.

Bayern's financial dominance limits Dortmund's options, as it does with other Bundesliga clubs.
Others have failed to replicate this model and they've paid for it with their position in the division.
Hamburg beat Schalke yesterday in Bundesliga II's opening match.

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That would be like Arsenal and Everton playing each other in the Championship. Next season, hopefully...
 
LockStock said:
I see a difference, but so small that it is irrelevant.

He is a player of higher value than Bale was when we got him, and he knows it, hence he feels closer to his dream.

Let's see how much of a difference there is at the end of the window if Real Madrid don't come in for him. At that point, the difference would be irrelevant.

That is all I'm saying.
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Comparing an example of a player who accepted to bid to one rejecting a bid because they feel they deserve to play for a select group of teams which we are not part of is not "so small that it is irrelevant" - it's a difference so massive you have to not be looking at it to fail to notice it

Kounde called us a second tier club a few weeks ago when rejecting our offer, FFS. Do you really think that's not a player who'll only begrudgingly join us because Sevilla reportedly want to cash in on him but the team he didn't want to join showed no interest?
 
Must say I really like Dortmund’s way of operating. It probably means you can’t get too attached to players as after a few seasons they’re leaving for mega money (Reus being a pleasant exception) but you are getting to see some of the best prospects in Europe play for your club, year in, year out and it’s also a semi successful strategy too as Dortmund pick up an occasional cup here and there.

I’d have zero problems if Don Fabio adopted a similar approach here at Spurs.
 
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humanbeingincroydon said:
Comparing an example of a player who accepted to bid to one rejecting a bid because they feel they deserve to play for a select group of teams which we are not part of is not "so small that it is irrelevant" - it's a difference so massive you have to not be looking at it to fail to notice it

Kounde called us a second tier club a few weeks ago when rejecting our offer, FFS. Do you really think that's not a player who'll only begrudgingly join us because Sevilla reportedly want to cash in on him but the team he didn't want to join showed no interest?
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Erm…..

That would make his current club second tier also. So what?!? Has he been begrudgingly performing well enough for them to be noticed by us?

If his begrudging performances are better than our current CB's in the opinion of our DOF and manager I genuinely don't care. <laugh> Come and play begrudgingly well for Tottenham then!

Are you suggesting that we are currently first tier with Real Madrid? Is it more offensive when someone else says it than when we say it about ourselves?

We have fans who don't believe we have the smallest chance to win the league before we've even started, yet I'm gonna be offended at a professional players opinion? <doh>

All of that emotional stuff is why we have contracts.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
He's not a timebomb, at all. They'll do what they're doing with Sancho: sell and replace.
They attract top prospects entirely because they're willing to do what they're doing.
Give them game time, improve them, sell them on at a profit to top clubs and repeat.

Bayern's financial dominance limits Dortmund's options, as it does with other Bundesliga clubs.
Others have failed to replicate this model and they've paid for it with their position in the division.
Hamburg beat Schalke yesterday in Bundesliga II's opening match.

You must log in or register to see media

That would be like Arsenal and Everton playing each other in the Championship. Next season, hopefully...
Click to expand...
Schalke didn't really follow Dortmund's model, though, theirs was probably closer to Everton's under Moyes because they always had a bunch of journeymen padding out their first team

Case in point, if you look at their midfield in the 2015-16 season you'd think they were following Dortmund's model as they had the likes of Goretzka, Draxler and Sane, plus Hojbjerg on loan from Bayern - but when you look a little further up the pitch you see their options up front were a 32 year old Klaas Jan Huntelaar or former Wigan striker Franco Di Santo

But the problems really started between 2016 and 2018, because in that period they did receive a combined €120m for Sane, Draxler and Thilo Kehrer, but the following players all left them for €0.00
Leon Goretzka (Bayern, of course)
Joel Matip (Saltypool)
Sead Kolasinac (Arsenal)
Klaas Jan Huntelaar (Ajax)
Johannes Geis (Koln)
Max Meyer (Crystal Palace)
Eric Maxim Choupo Moting (Stoke)
Roman Neustadter (Fenerbahce)
Atsuto Uchida (Union Berlin)

That's at least €180m worth of players there (mainly front-loaded, but still...) and they didn't receive a pfennig

At that point Schalke started relying more and more on loan players to fill the gaps, with the likes of Benedikt Howedes, Nabil Bentaleb, Baba Rahmann, Marko Pjaca, Jeffrey Bruma, Jonjoe Kenny and many, many others all coming in for a season to fill the gaps, but eventually there comes a point where you run out of Band-Aids to put over the holes, and that's what happened last season (although it has to be said they were adding a lot of dross to their squad in the last couple of years like Pablo Insua, a superannuated Huntelaar, and loaning Kolasinac back in) coupled with some of the players they hoped would succeed such as Breel Embolo or Yevhen Konoplianka all flopping

It's similar to what happened to Swansea a few years back, because while under Rodgers and Laudrup they did have a system in place, from the moment Garry Monk became manager instead they only focused on keeping their heads above water at the end of the season, and that only lasted so long before they couldn't
 
LockStock said:
Erm…..

That would make his current club second tier also. So what?!? Has he been begrudgingly performing well enough for them to be noticed by us?

If his begrudging performances are better than our current CB's in the opinion of our DOF and manager I genuinely don't care. <laugh> Come and play begrudgingly well for Tottenham then!

Are you suggesting that we are currently first tier with Real Madrid? Is it more offensive when someone else says it than when we say it about ourselves?

We have fans who don't believe we have the smallest chance to win the league before we've even started, yet I'm gonna be offended at a professional players opinion? <doh>

All of that emotional stuff is why we have contracts.
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Would you like to mention which European competition Sevilla are playing in next season and where you think which tier that competition should be ranked?

The fact is that, realistically, we're at the same level as Sevilla - and yet he's dismissing us, publicly, as "second tier" because he thinks he deserves to play for Los Ladrones and is waiting by the phone for an offer

This is the exact same attitude Aubameyang had a few years ago, signing a new contract with Dortmund then ****ting on them and telling anyone who would listen how he deserved to play for Barca
...and when that offer didn't materialise he was literally begging Milan to sign him
...and when that offer didn't materialise he ended up at Arsenal
...and then a couple of years later started talking up how all the big clubs wanted him
...and then nobody bid
...and then Arsenal were dumb enough to cave to his demands of £350k a week
...and then he had his worst goals return for a season in his entire career

Gee, I can't think why having players with the attitude "you'll do" could be seen as a problem...
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
Schalke didn't really follow Dortmund's model, though, theirs was probably closer to Everton's under Moyes because they always had a bunch of journeymen padding out their first team

Case in point, if you look at their midfield in the 2015-16 season you'd think they were following Dortmund's model as they had the likes of Goretzka, Draxler and Sane, plus Hojbjerg on loan from Bayern - but when you look a little further up the pitch you see their options up front were a 32 year old Klaas Jan Huntelaar or former Wigan striker Franco Di Santo

But the problems really started between 2016 and 2018, because in that period they did receive a combined €120m for Sane, Draxler and Thilo Kehrer, but the following players all left them for €0.00
Leon Goretzka (Bayern, of course)
Joel Matip (Saltypool)
Sead Kolasinac (Arsenal)
Klaas Jan Huntelaar (Ajax)
Johannes Geis (Koln)
Max Meyer (Crystal Palace)
Eric Maxim Choupo Moting (Stoke)
Roman Neustadter (Fenerbahce)
Atsuto Uchida (Union Berlin)

That's at least €180m worth of players there (mainly front-loaded, but still...) and they didn't receive a pfennig

At that point Schalke started relying more and more on loan players to fill the gaps, with the likes of Benedikt Howedes, Nabil Bentaleb, Baba Rahmann, Marko Pjaca, Jeffrey Bruma, Jonjoe Kenny and many, many others all coming in for a season to fill the gaps, but eventually there comes a point where you run out of Band-Aids to put over the holes, and that's what happened last season (although it has to be said they were adding a lot of dross to their squad in the last couple of years like Pablo Insua, a superannuated Huntelaar, and loaning Kolasinac back in) coupled with some of the players they hoped would succeed such as Breel Embolo or Yevhen Konoplianka all flopping

It's similar to what happened to Swansea a few years back, because while under Rodgers and Laudrup they did have a system in place, from the moment Garry Monk became manager instead they only focused on keeping their heads above water at the end of the season, and that only lasted so long before they couldn't
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Precisely. You've just demonstrated why Dortmund can't afford to turn down that sort of opportunity.
Schalke may have been slightly blindsided by the rise of two outside-money clubs.
They got a little complacent, took their eye off the ball and now they're in tier two.
A couple of poor seasons and they go from competing at the top to getting relegated.

Dortmund's best hope is to keep doing what they're doing and hope Bayern **** things up.
The attacking football and top youth prospects also helps them attract more support.
It's ambitious, just not in a naive, toe-to-toe fashion, which would almost certainly fail.
 
SpursDisciple said:
Even from Kane's perspective. Where is the achievement in joining a club that will likely win trophies without him there. Sure they'll win them easier with him aboard, but he won't have made any real difference. If this is true it is just another footballer thinking £200k per week is not enough and deciding £400k is what he deserves.
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As far as I am concerned, Kane and go and help Citeh win 100 domestic trebles.
As long as they never see ONE CL trophy during both his or
pseudo messiah Peps' time there.
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
Precisely. You've just demonstrated why Dortmund can't afford to turn down that sort of opportunity.
Schalke may have been slightly blindsided by the rise of two outside-money clubs.
They got a little complacent, took their eye off the ball and now they're in tier two.
A couple of poor seasons and they go from competing at the top to getting relegated.

Dortmund's best hope is to keep doing what they're doing and hope Bayern **** things up.
The attacking football and top youth prospects also helps them attract more support.
It's ambitious, just not in a naive, toe-to-toe fashion, which would almost certainly fail.
Click to expand...
Schalke got blindsided by a whole batch of their players letting their contracts run down in the space of a couple of years, so rather than having fees in the ballpark of what they got for Draxler/Sane/Kehrer instead they had fees in the ballpark of what they ultimately ended up getting for Franco Di Santo

And it has to be said Schalke weren't competing at the top even in 2015-16, as their form was all over the shop
2015-16: 5th
2016-17: 10th
2017-18: 2nd
2018-19: 14th
2019-20: 12th
2020-21: 18th

And their team in 2017-18 again was all over the shop: on the one hand they had Goretzzka and Meyer in midfield while McKennie was getting his first games, on the other they had Bentaleb, Stambouli, Konolyanka and Daniel Caliguri, their top scorer was career journeyman Guido Burgstaller, and their main defender was the 34 year old Naldo, so the only way they could hope to repeat that feat is with a rebuild - and they couldn't, as that summer Goretzka and Meyer left for nothing while they only got €5m for Howedes
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
Schalke got blindsided by a whole batch of their players letting their contracts run down in the space of a couple of years, so rather than having fees in the ballpark of what they got for Draxler/Sane/Kehrer instead they had fees in the ballpark of what they ultimately ended up getting for Franco Di Santo

And it has to be said Schalke weren't competing at the top even in 2015-16, as their form was all over the shop
2015-16: 5th
2016-17: 10th
2017-18: 2nd
2018-19: 14th
2019-20: 12th
2020-21: 18th

And their team in 2017-18 again was all over the shop: on the one hand they had Goretzzka and Meyer in midfield while McKennie was getting his first games, on the other they had Bentaleb, Stambouli, Konolyanka and Daniel Caliguri, their top scorer was career journeyman Guido Burgstaller, and their main defender was the 34 year old Naldo, so the only way they could hope to repeat that feat is with a rebuild - and they couldn't, as that summer Goretzka and Meyer left for nothing while they only got €5m for Howedes
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They weren't really blindsided by players running down their contracts. It's entirely predictable.
You either get them to sign new ones, move them on or accept it's happening.
They ****ed up.

From 2000 to 2018 they finished 2nd 5 times and were only out of the top ten once.
They were consistently one of the better teams in Germany and are one of the best supported.
A couple of poor seasons back-to-back and they're out of the division.
 
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LockStock said:
...

These entitled f*(%kers!!

You know what, I'd love for Levy and co. to clear out the dead wood and then go in for Grealish in this very window, just for the heck of it. Even if it doesn't bare fruit.

Just put a bid in. To let Man City know that Spurs aren't here to just roll over and donate players to them.
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As long as the money is there.
Potentially inflate the price Citeh have to pay, and raise the
"tight-arse" + "no ambition" banners if they fold and Spurs buy.
 
Sissoko is expected to move on this summer and has numerous clubs interested. (YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSS!)

Spurs are also understood to be open to offers for Winks but he wants to stay. (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!)
 
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