question for athiests

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the OP was self explanatory. I wanted to know athiests theories. It was a result of what i saw to be mocking and self importance on some religion threads
Its good to know what others think

It appears to have gone back to prove god exists. which imo is the athiests safe ground.

For the purpose of debate I felt it best to leave religion (as in christianity, Islam etc) out of it as it detracts from the key issue.
Basically 'proof of a creator' or not. Religion etc is a later debate imo

You are probably wise to leave religion out of it because religion has no 'safe ground' and that alone is probably quite safe ground for atheists. Remember that the onus is on those who spout religion to prove it, not the other way around.
You asked people to give arguments why 'creation' didn't happen which is ridiculous. If I said there are fairys at the bottom of my garden would you feel the responsibility was on you to prove there aren't. No. It's your daft belief so why don't you try to prove it to us?
 
You are probably wise to leave religion out of it because religion has no 'safe ground' and that alone is probably quite safe ground for atheists. Remember that the onus is on those who spout religion to prove it, not the other way around.
You asked people to give arguments why 'creation' didn't happen which is ridiculous. If I said there are fairys at the bottom of my garden would you feel the responsibility was on you to prove there aren't. No. It's your daft belief so why don't you try to prove it to us?

Abracadabra.....here he is...wearing a Liverpool top ....Robbie Fowler aka God
 
its not a case of grasping what people are saying
its not accepting it if anything.

I disagree.
You frequently seem to fail to understand people's replies and/or the scientific arguments that are put forward.
You don't argue against them, but fail to understand what they mean.
 
This has been an interesting read over the past couple of days.

My thing is this, the OP asks Atheists to prove how life began if not by god.

As an Atheist, I couldn't actually give a toss. You see I am an Atheist because I simply don't believe in god or gods. It's not through choice it's just the way it is.

That doesn't mean I am legally obliged to come up with an alternative.

But, should the law change I would probably go for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Seems as likely as any other god.
 
And my answer was to dispute the accuracy of the question, which you've accepted was inaccurate.

only to avoid being labelled as creationist.

By asking them to prove that their beliefs are grounded in reality?
How is that mockery?

no by saying to other posters that you are addressing crap/bullshit hence ridiculing the belief of others


Why did it have to come from anywhere?

because based on what we know everything has an origin

No.
We've yet to prove that matter or energy can be created or destroyed.
They do change form, though.

isnt the general definition of matter ending in '....the issue of matter remains a theoretical construct."
besides the issue is it had to come from somewhere, as nothing is ......you know the rest


No, it clearly wasn't based upon my perspective and your name for this creative force is irrelevant.

it is most relevant, as labelling it conjures up images. and yes it was as far as i am concerned anyway

What evidence do we have for things being created?

the knowledge that something doesnt come out of nothing


No, it isn't.
It's a claim.

a claim embedded in the fact thta as we know it everything has a point of origin/creation

And I've pointed out repeatedly why it defeats your own claim, yet you choose not to see it.

how does it defeat my claim? I certainly dont accept it

Wisdom teeth were for grinding down plant tissue.
A third eye-lid isn't for another eye.

never claimed it was

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nictitating_membrane
Nobody claims that we evolved from monkeys, either.

they did on the thread that i said I didnt accept it.


All of this is utterly untrue and more evidence that you're a creationist, as it's a standard creationist argument.
They call it irreducible complexity and it's been thoroughly debunked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity#Eye

sorry you are treating it like a creationist argument
Darwin had a theory for the development of the eye, that is true. But the eye does not support his natural selection theory
and it still defies explanation. The theories that exist are just theories (and not in th escientific theory sense). I suggest YOU read the article you linked


Note that they refer to your Darwin's Eye bullshit from earlier, too.

yes and leave more questions than answer

You clearly didn't and I'd be wasting my time repeating it here.
Read it again and then you might understand why your quotes were ridiculous.

More assumptions?

And your answer isn't actually an answer.
How did we get here?
God did it.
How did god get here?
His god did it, etc.

It doesn't tell us anything.

as mentioned we have been through this
we got here because of a creator.
what created the creator? that is indeed a debate, however it does not negate a creator
You cannot answer how the universe was created but it exists
 
You are probably wise to leave religion out of it because religion has no 'safe ground' and that alone is probably quite safe ground for atheists. Remember that the onus is on those who spout religion to prove it, not the other way around.
You asked people to give arguments why 'creation' didn't happen which is ridiculous. If I said there are fairys at the bottom of my garden would you feel the responsibility was on you to prove there aren't. No. It's your daft belief so why don't you try to prove it to us?

the OP was what the athiests theories were. Not a claim or theories to what I thought
I did not claim that creation did/did not happen.
 
I disagree.
You frequently seem to fail to understand people's replies and/or the scientific arguments that are put forward.
You don't argue against them, but fail to understand what they mean.

and i think you are wrong.
there may be occassions where misunderstanding has taken place, but that is to be expected on a forum imo

I see a lot of 'beating around the bush' and attempts to 'muddy the waters' and links to wikkipaedia

The arguments put forward are flawed simple as that
 
This has been an interesting read over the past couple of days.

My thing is this, the OP asks Atheists to prove how life began if not by god.

As an Atheist, I couldn't actually give a toss. You see I am an Atheist because I simply don't believe in god or gods. It's not through choice it's just the way it is.

That doesn't mean I am legally obliged to come up with an alternative.

But, should the law change I would probably go for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Seems as likely as any other god.

except I never mentioned God in the OP<ok>
 
As I said, Atheists don't have to have any theories about the origins of the Universe.

As an Atheist I don't know and quite frankly, don't care.

Atheism isn't an alternative belief system to god as such. It's just people who don't actually believe in gods of any form.

Just as I don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster, ghosts, tarot cards, fairies and Father Christmas. And I don't have to have an alternative to them either.
 
As I said, Atheists don't have to have any theories about the origins of the Universe.

As an Atheist I don't know and quite frankly, don't care.

Atheism isn't an alternative belief system to god as such. It's just people who don't actually believe in gods of any form.

Just as I don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster, ghosts, tarot cards, fairies and Father Christmas. And I don't have to have an alternative to them either.

and to say so is fine

Those who do have a theory, I would like to hear it
 
As I said, Atheists don't have to have any theories about the origins of the Universe.

As an Atheist I don't know and quite frankly, don't care.

Atheism isn't an alternative belief system to god as such. It's just people who don't actually believe in gods of any form.

Just as I don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster, ghosts, tarot cards, fairies and Father Christmas. And I don't have to have an alternative to them either.

This.
 
TFWNN

About three days ago on this thread (!) I suggested you read up on cosmology. The reason I did so was because I believed it would give you a better grasp of the subject at hand. If you had taken me up on the offer you would realise that the way the universe "works" at a molecular level is very different from the way it does at a macroscopic level.

At that level, where scientists study the origin of the universe for example, things pop in and out of existence all the time. As yet, there is no concrete evidence as to why that happens. Light acts differently at that level too. As does gravity. As do a million and one other things.

Your whole basis of "something exists, therefore there must be a creator" goes completely out the window. This is the very basic building blocks of the universe we are talking about here and scientists cannot explain why something exists or where they came from.

Your argument is flawed I'm afraid. In fact, it's undone by the very thing you argue in favour of: a creator. In quantum physics it seems it is perfectly reasonable for something to come into existence without being created by some external force. It is possible for a single light beam to split and be in two places at once.

The more we look into the "creation" of the universe the more we see that things are illogical and may never even be explainable.

Did someone or some thing create the universe? I simply don't know. But so far there is no evidence to suggest that there was and until there is proof, even anecdotal evidence, I will continue to believe that there is no such thing as a creator, be it spiritual or physical.