The Knee
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Taking the knee started as an anti racism stance and was adopted by BLM. There are many groups that are considered by areas of society to have controversial or abhorrent views, some in the U.K. who are often associated with certain flags, do we get rid of these flags from stadiums because of such associations?
Millwall released a statement prior to the game, according to talk sport, the only team who deemed it necessary, to emphasise their players would be doing so as an anti racism show of solidarity and not relating outside of that. So surely these Millwall fans were booing anti racism and equality?
Millwall released a statement prior to the game, according to talk sport, the only team who deemed it necessary, to emphasise their players would be doing so as an anti racism show of solidarity and not relating outside of that. So surely these Millwall fans were booing anti racism and equality?
I think there is confusion around exactly what taking the knee actually represents now
On 5Live yesterday the commentator on the Spurs v Arsenal match said that players were taking the knee "....in support of the BLM movement"
I think that the intention has moved on to a general anti-racism statement, but if even the BBC are confused on the intended message surely it is time to move on and drop this for some real action on racism
E.g. clubs / players going into schools in their areas to give structured sessions on positive perceptions of race
Sounds sensible. Stops us being dragged down with them hopefully. I don’t think it would be right to force anyone but I’m interpreting it as being something the players have decided collectively.
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Agree with this. I understand why the players haven't wanted to do it, as a token gesture doesn't mean as much as actually taking action...but when a token gesture is proactively opposing the booing, no reason not to do it.
Some great points. The original statement of taking the knee was done by American Footballer Colin Kaepernick after a consultation with a US marine who suggested it as something they did for fallen compatriots which to me seems quite apt. Whether or not some people misinterpret people's reasons for doing it really isn't as important to me as it still keeps racial equality highlighted, of course doing that without the other things you are suggesting won't be effective.
One major issue for me is every few years something happens to and the issue becomes at the forefront, there is actions taken and it falls into the background, with little to no changes. I genuinely believe this injustice needs to stay at the forefront and football does have a good platform to do so. I'm extremely proud of QPR's handling and what QPR do as a club in this area, I would think it's important for the Millwall game the players take a knee for a sign of solidarity, but again a statement from the club explaining what QPR does for racial inequality and inequality as a whole. I hope they do so, but it is a choice.
My final point and sorry Stortford, this has turned into more my thoughts than a response to you, is it doesn't matter what people's stance and reason for any act of anti racism people jump on it and shout Marxist BLM blah blah blah, no matter if someone has stated their intent behind the act, just as a way of shutting it down, no matter how much they actually know about the movement in it's different forms and I've seen so many people, not all, including a good friend of mine use the term Marxism and yet not having the slightest clue as to what it is and what it means, so to me their agenda is something totally different.
Think it is the right thing to do under the circumstances, as I've mentioned previously if people want to jump all over it with BLM Marxism comments there has to be a different agenda the club has made their stance very clear.
QPR management have come out well on the whole "taking the knee" issue, particularly Les Ferdinand who has been the voice of reason.
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Jimmy Abdou - twice voted Millwall’s player of the year following a vote of the club’s fans.
I agree. I’d have thought he’d have been involved heavily with this decision too.
Not sure anyone is suggesting that all Millwall fans are racist, or even the majority, however there is a racist element within their fan base, they were fined last year for racist chants at a cup game against Everton, and there was a further incident at Barnsley. Which indicates they still have a problem.
I agree there are a block of Millwall fans that will use racist chants against opposing teams which is reprehensible. But I understand there were black and Asian Millwall fans also booing the clenched fist and knee taking on Saturday. It was rude to boo, but I still don't think it was racist, and in some ways, inadvertently, they have been the catalyst for this issue to be aired on MSM and social media.
It's a difficult one, I can see it being ill informed and stupid. People can't seem to separate a political element of BLM and the wider movement, the sentiment as stated before the game that it was an anti racism stance and was distanced from any political affiliations, although when asked what Marxism is and what they disagree with Marxism, the facebook warriors seem to go silent or offer the first google definition, so for me it's trying to veil their real agenda, otherwise why bring something up that you don't know why you disagree with?
So to go ahead and boo something you either don't really know what you are booing which makes someone ill informed and/or stupid, or you are booing an anti discrimination and equalities stance .... which well....
They are well known for having called for the defunding of the police, Will, and abolition of prisons. People don't have to be a genius to know that. They were also anti family, although they have recently backtracked on this:
https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/blm-removes-website-language-blasting-nuclear-family-structure/
Their logo is an upright, clenched fist. Compare that with Ghandi's peace movement with hands in prayer, and you start to get an idea why some have concerns about this organisation
I accept there are many who follow a broader more positive message, that black lives matter as much as everyone else's and that there are inequalities existing that must be addressed. Action is needed by government
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Hang on hasn't it been explained over and over that this isn't what taking the knee is about in football, I'm pretty sure QPR, Millwall and others have stated this is an anti racism statement and they are not affiliating with any political aspect under the banner of black lives matter. Anything else to me is just noise in an attempt to distract away from a positive stance, you have to question,after the message has been clearly laid out by football why people continue to throw in any political aspect, in a negative way, to me it just looks like people don't support equality
That's not how the media portray it. For instance, read Stortford's earlier post [HASHTAG]#144[/HASHTAG] that the BBC said players were " taking the knee for the BLM movement."
And if it wasn't for BLM, how come one of the players was standing up with his fist raised? Have a look at the pictures at Millwall
You know that goes all the way back to Martin Luther King Junior right? It's an anti racism stance as are the majority who associate with the term Black Lives Matters, it's a minority who are pushing the political aspects. Ok so I've used this example before I'll use it again, shall I boo any movement who uses the Union Jack or St Georges Cross flag? Because there are certain groups with views I find deplorable that uses that as their emblem? A lot of 'patriot' groups have somewhat controversial groups, do we tar everyone who considers themselves a patriot with their rhetoric?
So let's move away from the waffle. In football it's an anti racism stance, not heard one person involved mention any political aspects... sooooooo
Ok, so you've ignored my point about the media references to political BLM. If the BBC believed the players were kneeling for the political movement, it's hard to criticise the fans by saying they should have known better, particularly as one player had his fist raised, which is the emblem of political BLM.
You've also ignored the final para of my post # 156 in which I accept that there are those outside the BLM political movement that use the phrase Black Lives Matter for more positive purposes ie in favour of racial equality.