Off Topic Politics Thread

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

If he’s allowed to ......

They need to get rid of the far-left idiots like McClusky and let them go off and form their own party. As long as labour spends time tearing itself apart, the Tories are laughing

The Tories have already been torn apart. What we have today is a Nationalist Party with a moderate Tory wing.

 

[StJabbo1]

Yes, that confused me too. I thought of Pfeffel straight away. I must admit that I know little about the private life of The Corbster.

You can be sure if there was anything slightly untoward the right wing media vultures would be picking the bones out of it. No hidden Corberetts or other skeletal cupboard dwellers.

 

[Schad]

Jeremy Corbyn has made mistakes but he is fundamentally a very decent human being, which is probably not a very good fit in the politics of today, especially in a rampant capitalist society. Many people see Corbyn as a threat to society but in reality he is nothing of the sort, and it really depends on what kind of society we value as to whether we see him as a threat or a catalyst for change. He has been weak in some areas but he is more misunderstood than mistake ridden. I like him a great deal and I don't really see him as a threat to this country at all. There's no doubt he was a threat to the status quo, but things needed to change if we were ever going to have a more balanced society.

People make the mistake in accusing Jeremy Corbyn of being an anti-Semite but the truth is he is an anti-Zionist and there is a huge difference. He is also someone who can see both sides in a situation rather than just the common one-sided view. That is why he didn't come out and condemn the IRA, but neither did Mo Mowlam and she is rightly recognised as perhaps the key politician in bringing about peace in northern Ireland. Blair took the credit but it was Mo Mowlam who did much of the groundwork. Finger pointing and demonising people doesn't solve a problem. It just creates a bigger one.

The rabid media have painted a picture of Jeremy Corbyn that bears no resemblance to the real man, or what he believes in. The Labour Party is now going down the Blair route and with Starmer at the helm they will just be a re-run of what has gone before. There won't be much change, just more political bickering and little actually getting done to help those who really need it. My view is that we missed a once in a lifetime opportunity to elect a progressive Labour government and instead we chose to sell our soul for a bucket full of empty promises based on greed and stupidity.

The fundamental problem with Jeremy Corbyn is that he is an absolutely appalling politician. Whatever decency one does or does not ascribe to his character, he is just exceptionally bad at swaying public opinion. And the fact that he is so bad at politics is in no small measure why both Labour and the UK writ large find itself with this absolute tire fire of a Conservative government.

Corbyn's time to be in the public eye has come and gone, and now the best thing he can be is irrelevant somewhere else.

People can blame the press all they like, but the reality is that Starmer has a consistently (and often strongly) net positive approval rating, while Corbyn was one of the least-liked political leaders in modern history, and not just in the UK. The less attention he gets, the better it is for Labour.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

The fundamental problem with Jeremy Corbyn is that he is an absolutely appalling politician. Whatever decency one does or does not ascribe to his character, he is just exceptionally bad at swaying public opinion. And the fact that he is so bad at politics is in no small measure why both Labour and the UK writ large find itself with this absolute tire fire of a Conservative government.

Corbyn's time to be in the public eye has come and gone, and now the best thing he can be is irrelevant somewhere else.

People can blame the press all they like, but the reality is that Starmer has a consistently (and often strongly) net positive approval rating, while Corbyn was one of the least-liked political leaders in modern history, and not just in the UK. The less attention he gets, the better it is for Labour.

Agree with you there, Schad. The IRA stuff with Corbyn is interesting. My stepfather-in-law (if that's a thing!) is Peter Taylor (not the football manager) who made this brilliant programme about his 50 years covering The Troubles. It's well worth anybody's time watching - what he's so good at is seeing the grey in amongst all the black and white shouting.

I think/thought Corbyn was hopeless and a pretty awful man (though not as bad as his brother), but he was a rare example of someone looking at the grey patch too, on occasion. Something we could do with right now. Not him, but that ability to see both sides.

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[Schad]

Agree with you there, Schad. The IRA stuff with Corbyn is interesting. My stepfather-in-law (if that's a thing!) is Peter Taylor (not the football manager) who made this brilliant programme about his 50 years covering The Troubles. It's well worth anybody's time watching - what he's so good at is seeing the grey in amongst all the black and white shouting.

I think/thought Corbyn was hopeless and a pretty awful man (though not as bad as his brother), but he was a rare example of someone looking at the grey patch too, on occasion. Something we could do with right now. Not him, but that ability to see both sides.

Absolutely, though as a politician one's ability to see both sides needs to be backed with the capacity to articulate your position, because otherwise you simply appear to be perpetually vacillating and incoherent. And that's where Corbyn consistently failed: when pressed he would argue his way down blind alleys in such a fashion that, even if he was pure of heart and mind, it made him look rather much like he was dodging and hiding, and he lost the trust of all but a faction of Labour. If you stuck Jeremy Corbyn on the stand in a jaywalking trial, by the end of his testimony he'd have the jury ready to convict him for murder.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Absolutely, though as a politician one's ability to see both sides needs to be backed with the capacity to articulate your position, because otherwise you simply appear to be perpetually vacillating and incoherent. And that's where Corbyn consistently failed: when pressed he would argue his way down blind alleys in such a fashion that, even if he was pure of heart and mind, it made him look rather much like he was dodging and hiding, and he lost the trust of all but a faction of Labour. If you stuck Jeremy Corbyn on the stand in a jaywalking trial, by the end of his testimony he'd have the jury ready to convict him for murder.

...and I really don't actually think he was terribly pure of heart and mind...

 

[San Tejón]

The Tories have already been torn apart. What we have today is a Nationalist Party with a moderate Tory wing.

The Tories may, or may not, have been torn apart, but you can put your house on them putting aside their internal differences before the next General Election, and put the party first, in order to be kept in power.
They, more than Labour MPs, understand that they need to be in power, in order to get what they want.

 

[Archers Road]

...and I really don't actually think he was terribly pure of heart and mind...

Is anybody?


I don’t think you can deny he is a man of very strong principles and belief, however.

 

[Farked19]

Is anybody?


I don’t think you can deny he is a man of very strong principles and belief, however.

Maybe too strong. The sensible thing to have done yesterday was to just accept the report even if that involved unjustified eating of humble pie. Paul Mason, a long time supporter of Corbyn said exactly this on R4 yesterday evening. He just seems incapable of accepting any level of blame.

 

[San Tejón]

Why would you ban staff from attending LGBT Pride events?

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[fatletiss]

Okay, I’ll bite. I look forward to seeing the leader of the Conservative Party’s response, when the investigation they promised on Tory Islamophobia publishes it’s report.

Equally shameful. Both parties.

You have however, slipped into the tit for tat that politics is always about. If only politicians would focus on doing their jobs correctly and to the maximum benefit of the people rather than the own or party benefit, then maybe their followers would do the same.

 

[fatletiss]

Kier has not learned the way of modern politics. He should have used Johnson's tactics of shoving the report in the bottom draw and refusing to answer questions other than to say "We've moved on from that". Corbyn has lost his job but one must ask what happened to the report on Patel's abuse of her staff which led to the resignation of a senior servant who was abused at her hands. She is still in post and that is shocking. Don't get me started on the disgrace that Demonic Cummings is still in work.

Kier must learn from the right-wing political parties here and in America, that is he must learn to lie through his teeth or make things up.

If he doesn't he will not get elected as the electorate seem to like liars and fools running the country.

You may be right Godders, but he’s gained a respect point in my eyes.

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

You may be right Godders, but he’s gained a respect point in my eyes.

He has in my eyes too but honesty, virtue and integrity are not characteristics much seen in modern political leaders.

 

[Archers Road]

Maybe too strong. The sensible thing to have done yesterday was to just accept the report even if that involved unjustified eating of humble pie. Paul Mason, a long time supporter of Corbyn said exactly this on R4 yesterday evening. He just seems incapable of accepting any level of blame.

Yeah, I agree. A better politician would have repeated the message that anti-Semitism has no place in the Labour Party, apologised once again for hurt caused to the Jewish community (both of which he has said many times tbf); then shut the **** up.

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

Why would you ban staff from attending LGBT Pride events?

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This is an absolutely true story. I remember many years ago standing in Langham Place with my granddaughters and pointing to Broadcasting House and telling them that it was the home of the BBC which was the most important institution in this country. That it was the BBC that would protect our democracy and our freedom more than any newspaper or political party ever would and that they should always protect it from those who would want to weaken it or destroy it as the only reason they would wish to do so was take away our freedom, to diminish us as a people and to control our media for political or financial gain. My cousin and my friend both worked for the BBC and we had a guided tour which has all left an indelible mark on my grandchildren. Today I could weep witnessing what Johnson and Cummings are doing to its autonomy.

 

[Archers Road]

Equally shameful. Both parties.

You have however, slipped into the tit for tat that politics is always about. If only politicians would focus on doing their jobs correctly and to the maximum benefit of the people rather than the own or party benefit, then maybe their followers would do the same.

Yes mate. That’s because I have a deep and abiding, tribal love for the Labour Party, it’s history and it’s traditions. My great grandfather was one of the organising shop stewards during the London docks strike of 1898 (google it). He was there at the birth of the Labour movement.

My grandfather was a socialist and a trade unionist all his working life, and on his deathbed he said he knew he was going to heaven, because Jesus was undoubtedly a socialist too and would welcome him home.

My uncle Bernard fought Mosley’s blackshirts at the battle of Cable Street, and kicked them off the streets of London (google that as well if you don’t know). Both my parents are card carrying Labour Party members to this day, and so is my son. It’s in the blood fats, I’ve never made any secret of that.

I don’t hate Tories though. I just hate what they have always stood for (the freedom of the rich to exploit the poor, and the entrenched privilege of the few at the expense of the many).

 

[Farked19]

Interesting. When I became a councillor in 1986 I sat beside a chap called Ron Thorne in the council chamber. His grandfather Will was MP for West Ham from 1906 until 1945. Ron died about ten years ago well into his nineties.

 

[fatletiss]

Agree with you there, Schad. The IRA stuff with Corbyn is interesting. My stepfather-in-law (if that's a thing!) is Peter Taylor (not the football manager) who made this brilliant programme about his 50 years covering The Troubles. It's well worth anybody's time watching - what he's so good at is seeing the grey in amongst all the black and white shouting.

I think/thought Corbyn was hopeless and a pretty awful man (though not as bad as his brother), but he was a rare example of someone looking at the grey patch too, on occasion. Something we could do with right now. Not him, but that ability to see both sides.

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One of the best bits of tv journalism I’ve seen. Said that before but still didn’t get an invite to the wedding or even a slice of wedding cake in the post.

 

[Saints_Alive]

Yes mate. That’s because I have a deep and abiding, tribal love for the Labour Party, it’s history and it’s traditions. My great grandfather was one of the organising shop stewards during the London docks strike of 1898 (google it). He was there at the birth of the Labour movement.

My grandfather was a socialist and a trade unionist all his working life, and on his deathbed he said he knew he was going to heaven, because Jesus was undoubtedly a socialist too and would welcome him home.

My uncle Bernard fought Mosley’s blackshirts at the battle of Cable Street, and kicked them off the streets of London (google that as well if you don’t know). Both my parents are card carrying Labour Party members to this day, and so is my son. It’s in the blood fats, I’ve never made any secret of that.

I don’t hate Tories though. I just hate what they have always stood for (the freedom of the rich to exploit the poor, and the entrenched privilege of the few at the expense of the many).

Brought a lump to me throat there...my Grandad and dad have shaped my views also, how can people not choose right from wrong? (privilege vs the many) I just can't fathom it.

Good excuse to post this from local heroes TMTCH...

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[fatletiss]

Yes mate. That’s because I have a deep and abiding, tribal love for the Labour Party, it’s history and it’s traditions. My great grandfather was one of the organising shop stewards during the London docks strike of 1898 (google it). He was there at the birth of the Labour movement.

My grandfather was a socialist and a trade unionist all his working life, and on his deathbed he said he knew he was going to heaven, because Jesus was undoubtedly a socialist too and would welcome him home.

My uncle Bernard fought Mosley’s blackshirts at the battle of Cable Street, and kicked them off the streets of London (google that as well if you don’t know). Both my parents are card carrying Labour Party members to this day, and so is my son. It’s in the blood fats, I’ve never made any secret of that.

I don’t hate Tories though. I just hate what they have always stood for (the freedom of the rich to exploit the poor, and the entrenched privilege of the few at the expense of the many).

Admirable family Archers. Didn’t mean it as an offence on you, just using it as an example. As no.7 said earlier, there has been more deflection than condemnation since this came out.