Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Staines R's said:
Totally agree, it could also be looked at as a class issue....however the fact cannot be ignored that it is fundamentally an issue within the black community, specifically the young black male community, that gang culture is a massive problem....and the main danger to young black males today (as quoted by Trevor Philips). To ignore the fact is, in my opinion, making the situation worse.
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Yeah - I think we're broadly on the same page. I know it's been linked to a few times on this thread, but have you seen this video?
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Doesn't ignore the facts, as you say, but looks at wider societal determinants (beyond race alone) and includes constructive solutions.
 
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StortfordQPR said:
Very interesting article

I guess the two key questions are:

- does this type of approach have a permanent impact on lowering (knife) crime
- if tried with success in one geographic area, why has it not been used more widely

We undoubtedly need to be flexible in the approaches adopted to tackle crime. The cost to society is horrendous both in human and economic terms

Does anyone know the history of the zero tolerance approach adopted some years ago in NYC?
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Assumption only, but going on local knowledge I'd think that once you can wean one generation away from knife crime then subsequent generations will not see the "glamour" behind such lifestyles and would be less likely to follow in this path. Continued work by such parties as VRU are essential though.

As for the geographical question, I think it may be to do with funding. As a devolved nation, the Scottish Government could allocate funds to the VRU without oversight from Westminster.
 
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Steelmonkey said:
Assumption only, but going on local knowledge I'd think that once you can wean one generation away from knife crime then subsequent generations will not see the "glamour" behind such lifestyles and would be less likely to follow in this path. Continued work by such parties as VRU are essential though.

As for the geographical question, I think it may be to do with funding. As a devolved nation, the Scottish Government could allocate funds to the VRU without oversight from Westminster.
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Breaking the cycle makes sense

Interesting that it hasn't been tried in London given the power that the Mayor has. Maybe the issue is the inability to get common ground amongst the many boroughs
 
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Quite Possibly Raving said:
Yeah - I think we're broadly on the same page. I know it's been linked to a few times on this thread, but have you seen this video?
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Doesn't ignore the facts, as you say, but looks at wider societal determinants (beyond race alone) and includes constructive solutions.
Click to expand...

I would say there are constructive solutions being implemented. The police force of today is far different from the police of the 70,s and 80’s. To say they (the police) are still institutionally racist is again in my opinion, wrong. Anyone who grew up in those years would be a liar if they wouldn’t admit there was a problem with racist, violent police officers......they have now mostly been weeded out and a new generation have been recruited.
Police, as well as prison officers, ambulance staff, magistrates and youth workers are also going into schools to tell kids about the perils and dangers of knife crime at an early age....to show them, and partly to shock them, about what they can expect if they carry a knife.
I truly believe efforts are being made...real efforts.....it just has to continue and the community has to admit to its problems instead of blaming others.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
Of course not, but you made that point immediately after denying that defunding the police was a BLM policy. You were hedging, in case you were wrong. And as it turned out, you were wrong and the policy was not something I fabricated. I can't see why you just can't come out and admit it. Pride, may be
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Great - that was like pulling teeth. So clearly you understand that it's perfectly possible to support a movement without agreeing with every single policy.

I don't think one tweet from one twitter account constitutes the position of a whole movement; especially when it's not listed on any website. Either way that's a moot point as I have zero problem with the tweet you linked to, investing in the services they list in that tweet is absolutely the right strategy. So yeah, I was hedging in case you were going to link to a policy I agree with?
 
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Staines R's said:
I would say there are constructive solutions being implemented. The police force of today is far different from the police of the 70,s and 80’s. To say they (the police) are still institutionally racist is again in my opinion, wrong. Anyone who grew up in those years would be a liar if they wouldn’t admit there was a problem with racist, violent police officers......they have now mostly been weeded out and a new generation have been recruited.
Police, as well as prison officers, ambulance staff, magistrates and youth workers are also going into schools to tell kids about the perils and dangers of knife crime at an early age....to show them, and partly to shock them, about what they can expect if they carry a knife.
I truly believe efforts are being made...real efforts.....it just has to continue and the community has to admit to its problems instead of blaming others.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that things are getting better and that some solutions are being implemented. I think institutional racism is still a challenge though - and to be very clear, that is often the structure of the police force itself rather than any individual within that structure. If you look at the arrest rates for drug use and the usage figures you'll see what I mean - BAME Londoners in totality are twice as likely as Caucasian individuals to be arrested for posession of cannabis, despite illict use of cannabis being roughly the same rate between those two populations. (NHS Digital data for the usage). That's not going to be because an individual officer wants to go out and arrest BAME individuals for cannabis, but will be linked to stop and search rates being so much higher in certain populations etc.
 
Kiwi posted this on the twitter thread - it probably sits better here. Yes, he may be talking about the US, but some of the points he raises are just as relevent on this side of the pond...

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Quite Possibly Raving said:
I don't doubt that things are getting better and that some solutions are being implemented. I think institutional racism is still a challenge though - and to be very clear, that is often the structure of the police force itself rather than any individual within that structure. If you look at the arrest rates for drug use and the usage figures you'll see what I mean - BAME Londoners in totality are twice as likely as Caucasian individuals to be arrested for posession of cannabis, despite illict use of cannabis being roughly the same rate between those two populations. (NHS Digital data for the usage). That's not going to be because an individual officer wants to go out and arrest BAME individuals for cannabis, but will be linked to stop and search rates being so much higher in certain populations etc.
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On the ‘Cannabis’ issue, a good start would be to legalise it, along with all drugs. Thus creating vast profits for funding of drug education and other projects without having to ‘defund’ the police. It would also free up police time, stop many youths being convicted and acquiring a police record that may effect their whole lives.
It’s a war that can never be won.....until a government is brave enough to admit that we are always gonna lose
 
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Staines R's said:
On the ‘Cannabis’ issue, a good start would be to legalise it, along with all drugs. Thus creating vast profits for funding of drug education and other projects without having to ‘defund’ the police. It would also free up police time, stop many youths being convicted and acquiring a police record that may effect their whole lives.
It’s a war that can never be won.....until a government is brave enough to admit that we are always gonna lose
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Now that's an issue where I definitely do sit on the fence. Completely see both sides, and think there are logical arguments for and against legalisation. Not quite sure what would be the most net beneficial.
 
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