Off Topic Lewis Hamilton

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haslam said:
As a driver Hamilton is one of the two best ever in my view. A lot gets made of having the best car but he's won a couple of those titles when having a disadvantage with his car compared to his rivals.

That out of the way... he is outspoken with his views and I respect the fact that he puts his voice forward for what he believes in. As a prominent black driver in a mostly white sport I've little doubt he will have suffered from racism at times and has worked hard to get to where he is. I do think he overplays his hand a touch though, his father made big sacrifices to give him opportunity (he quit his job to support him) and instead of ever seemingly acknowledging some of this (from what I hear him say) he instead refers to growing up in slums (Stevenage...) and pays no tax to the UK. I just find him hard to respect due to that.

That said he's right to call out issues where he sees them and I back his right to do so, he has been consistent with his message and has been willing to retract mistakes he's made in the past (nephew in a dress saga!) so i assume he's just looking for others to do the same. It's ok to make mistakes so long as you own them and improve.
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There are often a few things, in long posts, that I disagree with but not in this case ...

... excellent balanced post imo.

The problem is what Hamilton, and others, say can be taken in various ways by people.

As you say it's sad to to say he 'fought his way out of the slums' and what a kick in the teeth for his mother, especially as the father left when Hamilton was a baby. But 'one man's slum is another man's castle' I suppose.

You could also ponder why a person with a white mother and a black father should always insist he's black.

Is it that the notion of a black man, fighting his way out of the slums, makes his achievement all the greater in his mind and that of others.

Who knows, I certainly don't because all I have are opinions, not facts.

What I can say as fact, having worked there, is that racial discrimination against black people, in his chosen home of Monaco, is open, systemic and disgraceful. I await Hamilton speaking out against this and doing what he's pushing other people to do.

It'll be a long wait ....
 
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Smug in Boots said:
Exactly, you can only live in the time and place into which you were born ...

... in reality there were a dozen Nazi maniacs who terrified and manipulated their own people.

English slave traders also exploited the poor white people, who actually suffered because of the slaves taking their work.

Why on earth would the English working class bear any responsibility?
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Errr, I don’t think that the slaves had much choice in their choice of employment Smug mate :emoticon-0116-evilg
 
Evil Jimmy Krankie said:
Errr, I don’t think that the slaves had much choice in their choice of employment Smug mate :emoticon-0116-evilg
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Of course not mate, I didn't suggest they did, but they took paid employment away from the working poor who would, in many cases, also lose their tied cottages.

So, while the slaves were fed and housed the native workers were turfed out with nothing ...

... as I've said, working class people were not complicit in the slave trade, they were victims.

I'm guessing now but I'd say the workhouses were full of destitute white people.
 
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I actually wrote my dissertation on the impact of slavery on the working class in Britain.

I think you're conflating two issues. The slaves in the Americas didn't take paid employment away from UK based workers. If anything they were a primary source of continued employment for working class people in the cotton mills of the north and at sea. There were many schemes set up to get more white people to colonise, but very few took up the offer compared to how many stayed, despite the horrendous conditions at home. Saying that slaves were in any way better off negates the fact that they were often worked to death, separated from family, raped and killed by their owners, something that simply didn't happen en masse to free white labourers.

But no, the white working class of the UK weren't responsible for it. Nobody is suggesting they were or that we as their ancestors are responsible. They're not suggesting you apologise, they're not suggesting we should redress it financially.

They're suggesting that there is still racism in the UK, and that statues to the rich white men who did profit from slavery (like Colston) are not appropriate.
 
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pleased the knob head came 4th, he a handicapped brother but the tax payers still looked after him, yes generous big brother,
 
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Kittenmittons said:
I actually wrote my dissertation on the impact of slavery on the working class in Britain.

I think you're conflating two issues. The slaves in the Americas didn't take paid employment away from UK based workers. If anything they were a primary source of continued employment for working class people in the cotton mills of the north and at sea. There were many schemes set up to get more white people to colonise, but very few took up the offer compared to how many stayed, despite the horrendous conditions at home. Saying that slaves were in any way better off negates the fact that they were often worked to death, separated from family, raped and killed by their owners, something that simply didn't happen en masse to free white labourers.

But no, the white working class of the UK weren't responsible for it. Nobody is suggesting they were or that we as their ancestors are responsible. They're not suggesting you apologise, they're not suggesting we should redress it financially.

They're suggesting that there is still racism in the UK, and that statues to the rich white men who did profit from slavery (like Colston) are not appropriate.
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No Im not, I was quite clearly talking about England.
 
Oh right sorry, which jobs did the trans-atlantic slave trade take away from white working class people in England?
 
Kittenmittons said:
Oh right sorry, which jobs did the trans-atlantic slave trade take away from white working class people in England?
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None, they were bought and transported to England to do no work at all ...

... I believe lazed away their days, down by the river, with a fishing line tied to their big toes.

None worked in domestic service in London, at grand Country houses or farms, I was wrong.

The thousands I read about in London obviously came here of their own accord as economic migrants.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
None, they were bought and transported to England to do no work at all ...

... I believe they lazed away their days, down by the river, with a fishing line tied to their big toes.
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No, I'm asking, which jobs did they do? Because of about 12,000,000 slaves shipped to America, by the late 1770s there were only around 10,000 in Britain.
 
Kittenmittons said:
No, I'm asking, which jobs did they do? Because of about 12,000,000 slaves shipped to America, by the late 1770s there were only around 10,000 in Britain.
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This is just London, and the slaves were working where, otherwise, paid natives would be ...

... and that's my entire point.

White working class people, in England, didn't benefit from the arrival of slaves so have nothing to apologise for. In the 1770's Scottish miners were held as slaves which says something about those times.

I'm not interested in endless hair splitting tbh.

"By the mid 18th century, London had the largest African population in Britain, made up of free and enslaved people, as well as many runaways. The total number may have been about 10,000."
 
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Smug in Boots said:
What I can say as fact, having worked there, is that racial discrimination against black people, in his chosen home of Monaco, is open, systemic and disgraceful. I await Hamilton speaking out against this and doing what he's pushing other people to do.

It'll be a long wait ....
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I said this to pal i was watching with yesterday.

He says ‘I’m surprised Le Clerc isn’t doing the knee’

I said ‘he’s a blood Monegasque, there was no way on gods earth he was doing it’

It’s quite open that. Wealth kind of overrules it of course.
 
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Sunderpitt said:
Not a good look...
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after that move Hamilton did he deserved to take the penalty points, reminded me of when Damon Hill only need one point for the title Schumacher hit the wall and then turned into Damon wrecking his car so he could be world champion
 
Nads said:
I said this to pal i was watching with yesterday.

He says ‘I’m surprised Le Clerc isn’t doing the knee’

I said ‘he’s a blood Monegasque, there was no way on gods earth he was doing it’

It’s quite open that. Wealth kind of overrules it of course.
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You're fine in Monaco if you're a corrupt African president salting away millions in aid money that you've stolen.

If you're an honest hard working black man you won't be allowed to live there and will never be allowed citizenship.

You're allowed in, every day, to sweep the streets, empty the bins or serve people but have to leave when your shift is over. Try staying around to socialise and you'll find your work permit, carte de sejour, is quickly rescinded. Hamilton must know this but ignores it for money, just as people who exploit blacks do.

People like Hamilton don't actually live in Monaco, they just pretend to so they can avoid tax in their home country. What he deprives the UK of is massive in comparison to his charitable donations. He's literally taking money from the NHS to give to causes he prefers.
 
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Kittenmittons said:
Like I said, just because you hope something is true, doesn't mean it is xx

Also, Nicolas Hamilton has had an amazing life because of Lewis's success. Please enlighten us what the taxpayer has funded for him.
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learn to read English i said suspect not hope dip ****
 
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