The Politics Thread

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Trump....."what virus?"..........."I've got to cut all heathcare! Screw 'em! I'm German! I hate Americans".

But "they" voted you in,sir!!!

 

I don't regard Amnesty, for all their good work, as an unbiased source in this respect. Nor is there any corroboration of the facts except what is effectively a statement within the article. It mentions "thousands" without elaborating on that. Name some people, prove it happened, explain how their methods changed as a result of this alleged training. Show how this particular kneeling technique was in fact an Israeli invention. And no, criticism of the Israeli state is not per se anti-semitism. However, there are many horrendous regimes in this world, yet Israel continues to be reported on. Does it do bad things? Absolutely. But omission of criticism of other states to the same extent needs to be monitored to ensure that the motives behind reporting/non-reporting remain pure and factual, and not based on other criteria.

 

Amnesty have issued a statement denying that they've ever made any such connection:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...ver-reported-neck-kneeling-taught-israelis-us

 

Yeah, about that...
https://www.amnestyusa.org/with-who...-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

It's telling that the initial Independent retraction reads "(A spokesperson for the Israeli police has denied this, stating that “there is no tactic or protocol that calls to put pressure on the neck or airway”.)"

This is, for lack of a better word, bollocks: there's plentiful evidence of Israeli security forces doing that in the West Bank since 2006, for example...

Moreover, it is certainly true that Israeli policing methods have been taught in the US, as Channel 4's FactCheck confirms

Now is this a case of 2 + 2 = 5? That's where it gets complicated, in no small part because the Indy's initial retraction can be called a pair of hairy ones as there's plentiful proof of Israeli policing methods putting pressure on the neck or airway, while C4 certainly get wooly in their definition as it breaks down to "Well it was Israeli police there, not intelligence services" even though Israeli police are just as likely to kneel on your neck or airway if you look a bit too Palestinian for their liking, and they seemed pretty determined to say "Oh, but German police also teach methods" which looks uncannily like trying to move the focus away PDQ

And this is where Starmer's ****ed up (other than, you know, willingly getting the focus off Jenrick or Cummings, which is the most doltish thing he could do) as what he's done is bring more focus on Israeli methods in Palestine, which wouldn't happen if he wasn't so determined to make labour a rather narrow seminary instead of a broad church

 

To be honest, arguing that the the Israeli state taught the American Police the kneeling on the neck thing is beyond a joke.

There are a lot of things to condemn the Israeli government for but involvement of any kind in the brutality dished out by the US police is not one of them.

The US is the richest nation on earth and it alone is responsible for how it's law enforcement practices.

We have the right to condemn thd human rights abuses of the Israeli state the aparthied like treatment of Palestinian people, the land thefts etc.
To criticise the behaviour of the Israeli government is not anti semitic.

I disagree with almost everything the US government does but I am not anti American. I could say the same of other countries.

It is a failure of some of the left that they are willing to say things about Israel which are conspiracy theory bollocks or down right anti semitic.

Livingston being a prime example.

I consider myself a socialist.
I immensely disagree with how the UN continues to allow Israel to abuse Palestinians. I boycott Israeli goods just as I did with South African goods under Apartheid but I have never gone along with any anti semitic comments, conspiracy theories or used the term Israeli government and Jewish as interchangeable so I have no idea why others who claim they are on the left do.
To be clear I am not accusing anyone here of doing this.

 

I think that is the construction the media put on it. In the latest controversy Long-Bailey (or Maxine Peake) never suggested it was a Jewish thing, but an Israeli thing.
Whilst it is wrong to suggest American police were shown how to kill Black civilians (American law enforcement were doing that before Israel existed) it is a fact that Israeli agents have provided the US training on how to deal with terrorists.

 

I didn't mean to suggest Maxine Peake or Long-Bailey used the terms Israeli government and Jewish interchangeably. But like I said, the idea that the US police were trained in brutality is beyond a joke.

Originally the US trained and financially supported the Israeli army and police as they had decades of experience in dishing out brutality.

The American police and security services were reportedly using techniques to block airways of "prisoners" dating back to the prohibition, through the great depression where they attacked union members, through to the Korean and Vietnam wars, the civil rights protests of the 60s (for black and gay rights), through to the brutality against several black New Yorkers in the 80s or 90s (where one guy was shot close on 80 times and another was killed with horrific anal injuries strongly suspected to be caused with a police baton).

Britain, US and dozens of other counties sell "torture ideas" via "seminars" to other countries ... I think that is why I believe the comment by Maxine Peake was wrong.

For me it is like when right wing bigots slag off Islam for being homophobic and anti womens rights or not stopping sexual abuse.
They pointedly say nothing about all the religions that have the same views.
They are simply are anti muslim.

 

There's also another reason why Starmer looks like a complete dope in using the earliest excuse to get Long-Bailey out of the shadow cabinet...

 

Elizabeth Warren has filed legislation that would require the Pentagon to remove all confederate monuments and rename US military bases.
Why the hell do they have bases named after traitors, anyway? Very strange.

 

Most countries have statues of the winners, not the runners-up...

On the subject of losers...wait, that's us, isn't it?

 

I thought that conservatives didn't like participation trophies?

 

Michael Gove's wife is in a spot of bother...

 

I read a book called "Bloody Harlan (Kentucky)" where the mine owners together with the local police killed many a union man in and around the mountains! Obviously,the owners wanted no truck with the unions and wanted to pay the miners next to nothing as per usual together with dangerous work conditions.
Many miners yesterday and today are suffering with "Black Lung!" Probably ex British miners have the same "Black Lung!?"

 

The Fail really aren't letting this one go, are they? Bodger and Generic getting hunted by their own. Shame!

 

So here's the full list of 331 Tory MPs who voted against NHS staff having weekly tests for Covid

• Nigel Adams (Conservative – Selby and Ainsty)
• Bim Afolami (Conservative – Hitchin and Harpenden)
• Nickie Aiken (Conservative – Cities of London and Westminster)
• Peter Aldous (Conservative – Waveney)
• Lucy Allan (Conservative – Telford)
• David Amess (Conservative – Southend West)
• Lee Anderson (Conservative – Ashfield)
• Stuart Anderson (Conservative – Wolverhampton South West)
• Stuart Andrew (Conservative – Pudsey)
• Caroline Ansell (Conservative – Eastbourne)
• Edward Argar (Conservative – Charnwood)
• Sarah Atherton (Conservative – Wrexham)
• Victoria Atkins (Conservative – Louth and Horncastle)
• Gareth Bacon (Conservative – Orpington)
• Richard Bacon (Conservative – South Norfolk)
• Kemi Badenoch (Conservative – Saffron Walden)
• Shaun Bailey (Conservative – West Bromwich West)
• Siobhan Baillie (Conservative – Stroud)
• Duncan Baker (Conservative – North Norfolk)
• Steve Baker (Conservative – Wycombe)
• Harriett Baldwin (Conservative – West Worcestershire)
• John Baron (Conservative – Basildon and Billericay)
• Simon Baynes (Conservative – Clwyd South)
• Aaron Bell (Conservative – Newcastle-under-Lyme)
• Scott Benton (Conservative – Blackpool South)
• Paul Beresford (Conservative – Mole Valley)
• Jake Berry (Conservative – Rossendale and Darwen)
• Saqib Bhatti (Conservative – Meriden)
• Bob Blackman (Conservative – Harrow East)
• Crispin Blunt (Conservative – Reigate)
• Peter Bone (Conservative – Wellingborough)
• Andrew Bowie (Conservative – West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine)
• Ben Bradley (Conservative – Mansfield)
• Karen Bradley (Conservative – Staffordshire Moorlands)
• Graham Brady (Conservative – Altrincham and Sale West)
• Suella Braverman (Conservative – Fareham)
• Jack Brereton (Conservative – Stoke-on-Trent South)
• Andrew Bridgen (Conservative – North West Leicestershire)
• Steve Brine (Conservative – Winchester)
• Paul Bristow (Conservative – Peterborough)
• Sara Britcliffe (Conservative – Hyndburn)
• James Brokenshire (Conservative – Old Bexley and Sidcup)
• Anthony Browne (Conservative – South Cambridgeshire)
• Fiona Bruce (Conservative – Congleton)
• Felicity Buchan (Conservative – Kensington)
• Robert Buckland (Conservative – South Swindon)
• Alex Burghart (Conservative – Brentwood and Ongar)
• Conor Burns (Conservative – Bournemouth West)
• Rob Butler (Conservative – Aylesbury)
• Alun Cairns (Conservative – Vale of Glamorgan)
• Andy Carter (Conservative – Warrington South)
• James Cartlidge (Conservative – South Suffolk)
• William Cash (Conservative – Stone)
• Miriam Cates (Conservative – Penistone and Stocksbridge)
• Maria Caulfield (Conservative – Lewes)
• Alex Chalk (Conservative – Cheltenham)
• Rehman Chishti (Conservative – Gillingham and Rainham)
• Jo Churchill (Conservative – Bury St Edmunds)
• Greg Clark (Conservative – Tunbridge Wells)
• Simon Clarke (Conservative – Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland)
• Theo Clarke (Conservative – Stafford)
• Brendan Clarke-Smith (Conservative – Bassetlaw)
• Chris Clarkson (Conservative – Heywood and Middleton)
• James Cleverly (Conservative – Braintree)
• Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Conservative – The Cotswolds)
• Thérèse Coffey (Conservative – Suffolk Coastal)
• Elliot Colburn (Conservative – Carshalton and Wallington)
• Damian Collins (Conservative – Folkestone and Hythe)
• Alberto Costa (Conservative – South Leicestershire)
• Robert Courts (Conservative – Witney)
• Claire Coutinho (Conservative – East Surrey)
• Geoffrey Cox (Conservative – Torridge and West Devon)
• Stephen Crabb (Conservative – Preseli Pembrokeshire)
• Virginia Crosbie (Conservative – Ynys Môn)
• Tracey Crouch (Conservative – Chatham and Aylesford)
• James Daly (Conservative – Bury North)
• David T C Davies (Conservative – Monmouth)
• James Davies (Conservative – Vale of Clwyd)
• Gareth Davies (Conservative – Grantham and Stamford)
• Mims Davies (Conservative – Mid Sussex)
• David Davis (Conservative – Haltemprice and Howden)
• Dehenna Davison (Conservative – Bishop Auckland)
• Caroline Dinenage (Conservative – Gosport)
• Sarah Dines (Conservative – Derbyshire Dales)
• Jonathan Djanogly (Conservative – Huntingdon)
• Leo Docherty (Conservative – Aldershot)
• Michelle Donelan (Conservative – Chippenham)
• Steve Double (Conservative – St Austell and Newquay)
• Oliver Dowden (Conservative – Hertsmere)
• Jackie Doyle-Price (Conservative – Thurrock)
• Richard Drax (Conservative – South Dorset)
• Flick Drummond (Conservative – Meon Valley)
• James Duddridge (Conservative – Rochford and Southend East)
• David Duguid (Conservative – Banff and Buchan)
• Iain Duncan Smith (Conservative – Chingford and Woodford Green)
• Philip Dunne (Conservative – Ludlow)
• Mark Eastwood (Conservative – Dewsbury)
• Ruth Edwards (Conservative – Rushcliffe)
• Michael Ellis (Conservative – Northampton North)
• George Eustice (Conservative – Camborne and Redruth)
• Luke Evans (Conservative – Bosworth)
• David Evennett (Conservative – Bexleyheath and Crayford)
• Ben Everitt (Conservative – Milton Keynes North)
• Michael Fabricant (Conservative – Lichfield)
• Laura Farris (Conservative – Newbury)
• Simon Fell (Conservative – Barrow and Furness)
• Katherine Fletcher (Conservative – South Ribble)
• Mark Fletcher (Conservative – Bolsover)
• Nick Fletcher (Conservative – Don Valley)
• Vicky Ford (Conservative – Chelmsford)
• Kevin Foster (Conservative – Torbay)
• Liam Fox (Conservative – North Somerset)
• Mark Francois (Conservative – Rayleigh and Wickford)
• Lucy Frazer (Conservative – South East Cambridgeshire)
• George Freeman (Conservative – Mid Norfolk)
• Mike Freer (Conservative – Finchley and Golders Green)
• Richard Fuller (Conservative – North East Bedfordshire)
• Marcus Fysh (Conservative – Yeovil)
• Roger Gale (Conservative – North Thanet)
• Mark Garnier (Conservative – Wyre Forest)
• Nusrat Ghani (Conservative – Wealden)
• Nick Gibb (Conservative – Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
• Peter Gibson (Conservative – Darlington)
• Jo Gideon (Conservative – Stoke-on-Trent Central)
• Cheryl Gillan (Conservative – Chesham and Amersham)
• John Glen (Conservative – Salisbury)
• Robert Goodwill (Conservative – Scarborough and Whitby)
• Richard Graham (Conservative – Gloucester)
• Helen Grant (Conservative – Maidstone and The Weald)
• Chris Grayling (Conservative – Epsom and Ewell)
• Chris Green (Conservative – Bolton West)
• Damian Green (Conservative – Ashford)
• Andrew Griffith (Conservative – Arundel and South Downs)
• Kate Griffiths (Conservative – Burton)
• James Grundy (Conservative – Leigh)
• Jonathan Gullis (Conservative – Stoke-on-Trent North)
• Robert Halfon (Conservative – Harlow)
• Luke Hall (Conservative – Thornbury and Yate)
• Stephen Hammond (Conservative – Wimbledon)
• Greg Hands (Conservative – Chelsea and Fulham)
• Mark Harper (Conservative – Forest of Dean)
• Rebecca Harris (Conservative – Castle Point)
• Trudy Harrison (Conservative – Copeland)
• Sally-Ann Hart (Conservative – Hastings and Rye)
• Simon Hart (Conservative – Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)
• Oliver Heald (Conservative – North East Hertfordshire)
• Chris Heaton-Harris (Conservative – Daventry)
• Gordon Henderson (Conservative – Sittingbourne and Sheppey)
• Darren Henry (Conservative – Broxtowe)
• Antony Higginbotham (Conservative – Burnley)
• Damian Hinds (Conservative – East Hampshire)
• Simon Hoare (Conservative – North Dorset)
• Richard Holden (Conservative – North West Durham)
• Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative – Thirsk and Malton)
• Philip Hollobone (Conservative – Kettering)
• Adam Holloway (Conservative – Gravesham)
• Paul Holmes (Conservative – Eastleigh)
• John Howell (Conservative – Henley)
• Paul Howell (Conservative – Sedgefield)
• Nigel Huddleston (Conservative – Mid Worcestershire)
• Neil Hudson (Conservative – Penrith and The Border)
• Eddie Hughes (Conservative – Walsall North)
• Jane Hunt (Conservative – Loughborough)
• Jeremy Hunt (Conservative – South West Surrey)
• Tom Hunt (Conservative – Ipswich)
• Alister Jack (Conservative – Dumfries and Galloway)
• Sajid Javid (Conservative – Bromsgrove)
• Ranil Jayawardena (Conservative – North East Hampshire)
• Bernard Jenkin (Conservative – Harwich and North Essex)
• Mark Jenkinson (Conservative – Workington)
• Andrea Jenkyns (Conservative – Morley and Outwood)
• Caroline Johnson (Conservative – Sleaford and North Hykeham)
• David Johnston (Conservative – Wantage)
• Andrew Jones (Conservative – Harrogate and Knaresborough)
• Fay Jones (Conservative – Brecon and Radnorshire)
• David Jones (Conservative – Clwyd West)
• Simon Jupp (Conservative – East Devon)
• Daniel Kawczynski (Conservative – Shrewsbury and Atcham)
• Alicia Kearns (Conservative – Rutland and Melton)
• Gillian Keegan (Conservative – Chichester)
• Julian Knight (Conservative – Solihull)
• Greg Knight (Conservative – East Yorkshire)
• Danny Kruger (Conservative – Devizes)
• Kwasi Kwarteng (Conservative – Spelthorne)
• John Lamont (Conservative – Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk)
• Robert Largan (Conservative – High Peak)
• Pauline Latham (Conservative – Mid Derbyshire)
• Andrea Leadsom (Conservative – South Northamptonshire)
• Ian Levy (Conservative – Blyth Valley)
• Andrew Lewer (Conservative – Northampton South)
• Julian Lewis (Conservative – New Forest East)
• Ian Liddell-Grainger (Conservative – Bridgwater and West Somerset)
• Chris Loder (Conservative – West Dorset)
• Mark Logan (Conservative – Bolton North East)
• Marco Longhi (Conservative – Dudley North)
• Julia Lopez (Conservative – Hornchurch and Upminster)
• Jack Lopresti (Conservative – Filton and Bradley Stoke)
• Jonathan Lord (Conservative – Woking)
• Tim Loughton (Conservative – East Worthing and Shoreham)
• Craig Mackinlay (Conservative – South Thanet)
• Cherilyn Mackrory (Conservative – Truro and Falmouth)
• Rachel Maclean (Conservative – Redditch)
• Alan Mak (Conservative – Havant)
• Kit Malthouse (Conservative – North West Hampshire)
• Anthony Mangnall (Conservative – Totnes)
• Scott Mann (Conservative – North Cornwall)
• Julie Marson (Conservative – Hertford and Stortford)
• Theresa May (Conservative – Maidenhead)
• Jerome Mayhew (Conservative – Broadland)
• Paul Maynard (Conservative – Blackpool North and Cleveleys)
• Jason McCartney (Conservative – Colne Valley)
• Karl McCartney (Conservative – Lincoln)
• Stephen McPartland (Conservative – Stevenage)
• Mark Menzies (Conservative – Fylde)
• Johnny Mercer (Conservative – Plymouth, Moor View)
• Huw Merriman (Conservative – Bexhill and Battle)
• Stephen Metcalfe (Conservative – South Basildon and East Thurrock)
• Robin Millar (Conservative – Aberconwy)
• Maria Miller (Conservative – Basingstoke)
• Amanda Milling (Conservative – Cannock Chase)
• Nigel Mills (Conservative – Amber Valley)
• Andrew Mitchell (Conservative – Sutton Coldfield)
• Gagan Mohindra (Conservative – South West Hertfordshire)
• Damien Moore (Conservative – Southport)
• Robbie Moore (Conservative – Keighley)
• Penny Mordaunt (Conservative – Portsmouth North)
• Anne Marie Morris (Conservative – Newton Abbot)
• David Morris (Conservative – Morecambe and Lunesdale)
• James Morris (Conservative – Halesowen and Rowley Regis)
• Joy Morrissey (Conservative – Beaconsfield)
• Wendy Morton (Conservative – Aldridge-Brownhills)
• Kieran Mullan (Conservative – Crewe and Nantwich)
• Holly Mumby-Croft (Conservative – Scunthorpe)
• David Mundell (Conservative – Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale)
• Sheryll Murray (Conservative – South East Cornwall)
• Andrew Murrison (Conservative – South West Wiltshire)
• Robert Neill (Conservative – Bromley and Chislehurst)
• Lia Nici (Conservative – Great Grimsby)
• Caroline Nokes (Conservative – Romsey and Southampton North)
• Jesse Norman (Conservative – Hereford and South Herefordshire)
• Neil O’Brien (Conservative – Harborough)
• Matthew Offord (Conservative – Hendon)
• Guy Opperman (Conservative – Hexham)
• Neil Parish (Conservative – Tiverton and Honiton)
• Priti Patel (Conservative – Witham)
• Mark Pawsey (Conservative – Rugby)
• Mike Penning (Conservative – Hemel Hempstead)
• John Penrose (Conservative – Weston-super-Mare)
• Andrew Percy (Conservative – Brigg and Goole)
• Chris Philp (Conservative – Croydon South)
• Christopher Pincher (Conservative – Tamworth)
• Dan Poulter (Conservative – Central Suffolk and North Ipswich)
• Rebecca Pow (Conservative – Taunton Deane)
• Victoria Prentis (Conservative – Banbury)
• Tom Pursglove (Conservative – Corby)
• Jeremy Quin (Conservative – Horsham)
• Will Quince (Conservative – Colchester)
• Tom Randall (Conservative – Gedling)
• John Redwood (Conservative – Wokingham)
• Jacob Rees-Mogg (Conservative – North East Somerset)
• Nicola Richards (Conservative – West Bromwich East)
• Angela Richardson (Conservative – Guildford)
• Rob Roberts (Conservative – Delyn)
• Laurence Robertson (Conservative – Tewkesbury)
• Mary Robinson (Conservative – Cheadle)
• Andrew Rosindell (Conservative – Romford)
• Douglas Ross (Conservative – Moray)
• Lee Rowley (Conservative – North East Derbyshire)
• Dean Russell (Conservative – Watford)
• Gary Sambrook (Conservative – Birmingham, Northfield)
• Selaine Saxby (Conservative – North Devon)
• Paul Scully (Conservative – Sutton and Cheam)
• Bob Seely (Conservative – Isle of Wight)
• Andrew Selous (Conservative – South West Bedfordshire)
• Jim Shannon (Democratic Unionist Party – Strangford)
• Grant Shapps (Conservative – Welwyn Hatfield)
• Alec Shelbrooke (Conservative – Elmet and Rothwell)
• David Simmonds (Conservative – Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner)
• Chris Skidmore (Conservative – Kingswood)
• Chloe Smith (Conservative – Norwich North)
• Greg Smith (Conservative – Buckingham)
• Henry Smith (Conservative – Crawley)
• Julian Smith (Conservative – Skipton and Ripon)
• Royston Smith (Conservative – Southampton, Itchen)
• Ben Spencer (Conservative – Runnymede and Weybridge)
• Mark Spencer (Conservative – Sherwood)
• Alexander Stafford (Conservative – Rother Valley)
• Andrew Stephenson (Conservative – Pendle)
• Jane Stevenson (Conservative – Wolverhampton North East)
• John Stevenson (Conservative – Carlisle)
• Bob Stewart (Conservative – Beckenham)
• Iain Stewart (Conservative – Milton Keynes South)
• Gary Streeter (Conservative – South West Devon)
• Mel Stride (Conservative – Central Devon)
• Graham Stuart (Conservative – Beverley and Holderness)
• Julian Sturdy (Conservative – York Outer)
• Rishi Sunak (Conservative – Richmond (Yorks))
• James Sunderland (Conservative – Bracknell)
• Desmond Swayne (Conservative – New Forest West)
• Robert Syms (Conservative – Poole)
• Maggie Throup (Conservative – Erewash)
• Edward Timpson (Conservative – Eddisbury)
• Kelly Tolhurst (Conservative – Rochester and Strood)
• Justin Tomlinson (Conservative – North Swindon)
• Michael Tomlinson (Conservative – Mid Dorset and North Poole)
• Craig Tracey (Conservative – North Warwickshire)
• Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Conservative – Berwick-upon-Tweed)
• Laura Trott (Conservative – Sevenoaks)
• Elizabeth Truss (Conservative – South West Norfolk)
• Tom Tugendhat (Conservative – Tonbridge and Malling)
• Shailesh Vara (Conservative – North West Cambridgeshire)
• Martin Vickers (Conservative – Cleethorpes)
• Matt Vickers (Conservative – Stockton South)
• Theresa Villiers (Conservative – Chipping Barnet)
• Christian Wakeford (Conservative – Bury South)
• Robin Walker (Conservative – Worcester)
• Charles Walker (Conservative – Broxbourne)
• Jamie Wallis (Conservative – Bridgend)
• David Warburton (Conservative – Somerton and Frome)
• Matt Warman (Conservative – Boston and Skegness)
• Giles Watling (Conservative – Clacton)
• Suzanne Webb (Conservative – Stourbridge)
• Helen Whately (Conservative – Faversham and Mid Kent)
• Heather Wheeler (Conservative – South Derbyshire)
• Craig Whittaker (Conservative – Calder Valley)
• John Whittingdale (Conservative – Maldon)
• Bill Wiggin (Conservative – North Herefordshire)
• James Wild (Conservative – North West Norfolk)
• Craig Williams (Conservative – Montgomeryshire)
• Gavin Williamson (Conservative – South Staffordshire)
• Mike Wood (Conservative – Dudley South)
• William Wragg (Conservative – Hazel Grove)
• Jeremy Wright (Conservative – Kenilworth and Southam)
• Jacob Young (Conservative – Redcar)
• Nadhim Zahawi (Conservative – Stratford-on-Avon)

Oh look, yet another nail in the coffin of the "centrists"' deluded belief that Rishi Sunak is a good guy...

 

In years to come,if the human race is not wiped out,will the Tories and Republicans be found guilty of causing so many deaths while putting party politics before anything else?