Quite frankly my dear, I do give a damn.

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Shameless said:
Many people have put up statues and paid for, or being in a position of power have been able to orchestrate funds to honour themselves, so in one sense these prominent and elevated individuals have no right to dominate our public spaces, they have no context today and some our counter to the moral standard we seek to uphold today. In Eastern Europe they erased Stalin from their places of civic pride, in Germany, they not only removed the Nazi sculptures they have also renamed some of the streets as well. So should Edinburgh erase the name of Dundas from their streets too? Well it is being discussed ...

We could simply leave them be as an item of antiquity. like that ugly thing in the middle of Durham, I expect the silent majority reaction in Durham to this would be something along the lines of "**** it, just leave it" and "So what?". Then again, if you consider the modern art work on view in the Cathedral I'm certain it could be replaced by something much more interesting.

Personally I'm think I'm leaning more towards the 'oh, fer fuxake' side and leave Dundas be. Most people are not super-dooper PC or desperately keen to display their political awareness and if for instance, we were to start looking at quaint follies in some lovely countryside locations -a logical extension of the debate, I would switch sides and vehemently defend the whole damn lot! ...except a statue honouring the life of Margaret Thatcher is political and definitely not the same thing.
Click to expand...

I might be dumb and uneducated by a lot of standards but if they have no context today then what does it matter if they stay up?

It would appear that there are some people who are offended by them for past events, just as there are some who are proud of them for past events.

@Shameless I'd be interested in your views of the pressure that the University of Virginia was put under to change theire cavalier handle because the ribbed grip was supposedly a reminder of a serpentine fence on the campus grounds that was erected to "hide the slaves".

Surely even you must agree that if it's got to the stage where we're supposed to be offended by how someone interprets a squiggle it's getting beyond a joke.

What next, Man Utd have to change their nickname because religious lives matter? Religious persecution has been occurring forthouands of years.
 
Ozzymac said:
I might be dumb and uneducated by a lot of standards but if they have no context today then what does it matter if they stay up?

It would appear that there are some people who are offended by them for past events, just as there are some who are proud of them for past events.

@Shameless I'd be interested in your views of the pressure that the University of Virginia was put under to change theire cavalier handle because the ribbed grip was supposedly a reminder of a serpentine fence on the campus grounds that was erected to "hide the slaves".

Surely even you must agree that if it's got to the stage where we're supposed to be offended by how someone interprets a squiggle it's getting beyond a joke.

What next, Man Utd have to change their nickname because religious lives matter? Religious persecution has been occurring forthouands of years.
Click to expand...

'Religious persecution has been occurring for thouands of years.'

That's very true mate ...

... our Sunday School teacher used to clout us with the Bible if we giggled in class.

Is this the kind of thing you mean?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ozzymac
Smug in Boots said:
I totally agree.

The phrase 'systemic racism' reminds me of Feng Shui ...

... sounds impressive, makes the believer feel superior but is impossible to prove or disprove.
Click to expand...

It's amazing, given how impossible it is to disprove, how many people are adamant that it doesn't exist, don't you think?
 
Well as I have said, some of these statue debates have gone a bit silly

However, there are some statues I would prefer to be taken down (and that does not include Churchill or Baden Powell btw). As for that emblem - I heard that Thomas Jefferson said he wanted heavy doors there because he didn't want people to hear the noises emanating from the area where the slaves we being worked. Read into that what you will, you may have your own opinion but ultimately it is for the community in Virginia to decide what is best for the University of Virginia
 
Kittenmittons said:
It's amazing, given how impossible it is to disprove, how many people are adamant that it doesn't exist, don't you think?
Click to expand...

Well, despite your claims I've seen no one on here say that they're adamant ...

.... keep your fingers crossed though, you might eventually find a valid target for your outrage.

If you can exain what you mean by systemic racism I'd know if I agree or not.

No one has actually stated what it is yet so there's quite a bit of guesswork.
 
Last edited:
Shameless said:
Well as I have said, some of these statue debates have gone a bit silly

However, there are some statues I would prefer to be taken down (and that does not include Churchill or Baden Powell btw). As for that emblem - I heard that Thomas Jefferson said he wanted heavy doors there because he didn't want people to hear the noises emanating from the area where the slaves we being worked. Read into that what you will, you may have your own opinion but ultimately it is for the community in Virginia to decide what is best for the University of Virginia
Click to expand...

Which area was that, I'm intrigued.
 
Ozzymac said:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/17/us/uva-changes-slavery-logo-trnd/index.html

https://www.cavalierdaily.com/artic...ites-controversy-over-use-of-serpentine-walls

I guess the point is, if a squiggle depicting the wall is offensive why aren't they demanding that walls be torn down?
Click to expand...

The SAFC badge has an image of the Penshaw monument.

From memory that was erected to honour one of the architects of the colonies of the British Empire ...

... let's hope BLM don't find out or they'll be up the hill with sledgehammers.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ozzymac
It makes you wonder where it will all end.

Will Ghana have to change nick name of their international football team? What about the All Blacks? Are we allowed to refer to SAFC as Black Cats?
 
Ozzymac said:
It makes you wonder where it will all end.

Will Ghana have to change nick name of their international football team? What about the All Blacks? Are we allowed to refer to SAFC as Black Cats?
Click to expand...

We can change our name to the Black & White cats <laugh>

Seriously, the Penshaw monument is little different to the Colston statue, a tribute to an elitist who believed in his superiority over foreigners and his right to control their lives.

And this was much later than Colston, Jefferson, etc ....

... the days of that monument are surely numbered.
 
Last edited:
Kittenmittons said:
I think this is the root of it. In a nutshell, for you this 'prejudice' is an unintentional situation that was not meant to cause harm to anyone, it's just a 'preference' to hire or socialise with your own race. The problem is that because other races in Britain have been 'prejudiced' for so long in this way, black communities and other communities find themselves (as a result of years of not getting the best jobs or being passed over in favour of white people wherever there's an option to do so) less affluent. Of course some black and minority people get jobs and as the Rooney rule has shown, if people hire on an equal playing field, they're often surprised by how it turns out, that their prejudices were inaccurate.

So that's why I say that what Anthony Joshua is really saying at that rally is that other races are favouring their own without ever saying it, in the exact way you know and recognise. He is saying that while that kind of prejudice exist, then black people need to be aware they will often be a last resort, or a second choice, or 'not an ideal candidate' and their local communities will need more help to sustain businesses and aspirations.

I just also think I should make clear that I feel the same way about the North East, that the same problems the black community has in Watford and around the country are mirrored up here and impact white people too - and are less centred around race because we're predominantly white up here. If I said 'shop in the local community and support North East-owned businesses' it would be because I think North East businesses are less likely to be well off and suatainable in this local economy than one in a more affluent region. It doesn't mean I hate southern businesses, it means we have a problem and the government isn't solving it, so until we're equal with the south, I'll favour the North East with my money.

We really aren't that different. Sure, AJ may have referred to skin colour, but he did it because the black community has been treated unequally, so diverting resources to their community as a priority helps them strive for a day when they will be treated equally by employers. For him to say that is different from me saying 'Shop at more white-owned shops to maintain that inequality'.
Click to expand...


I spent a few years living in Spain. And found it very difficult to intergrate into the Spanish community.

Was it because of the 2 week holiday makers who drunk too much? Did that give me a bad name?

Was it because of the Spanish people, were they racist towards me?

No, it was my fault.

I didnt invest my time into their culture, and in fact, went out of my way to find things of my own culture, and find people from my own country.

I had a business in Spain. It was eventually copied by a Spanish person who then effectively took over my rented premises, with the permission of the Spanish property owner.

Did I think it was unfair, yes.

But I guess they see it fit to give their business to their own people.

The same way Anthony Joshua is advising his people to do business.
 
Dancingstripes said:
I spent a few years living in Spain. And found it very difficult to intergrate into the Spanish community.

Was it because of the 2 week holiday makers who drunk too much? Did that give me a bad name?

Was it because of the Spanish people, were they racist towards me?

No, it was my fault.

I didnt invest my time into their culture, and in fact, went out of my way to find things of my own culture, and find people from my own country.

I had a business in Spain. It was eventually copied by a Spanish person who then effectively took over my rented premises, with the permission of the Spanish property owner.

Did I think it was unfair, yes.

But I guess they see it fit to give their business to their own people.

The same way Anthony Joshua is advising his people to do business.
Click to expand...
That happens in Greece as well mate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dancingstripes
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back