Coronavirus

[Diego]

That is one hell of a sweeping judgement.

Some people do not want to be looked after by their children as they feel like a burden.

Others can't be cared for in their own home cos services such as meals on wheels and home helps no longer exists due to 30 to 40 years of cuts to social services budgets by every government in my life time from 11 onwards.

Some people simply do not have the room to have their parents move in with them.

Many no longer live near their parents (as used to happen pre the 1980s ) as communities dispersed around the country for a variety of reasons.

Some people simply do not have extended families and some are estranged from their families due to their behaviour as parents in the past.

I'm sure that there are probably some that can't be "arsed" but to lump every one in that category seems more than a bit harsh imho.

It is sweeping and i should have put in the exclusion of "not all".
I stand by the statement though.

 

[remembercolinlee]

It is sweeping and i should have put in the exclusion of "not all".
I stand by the statement though.

Ain't trying to have a dig but I honestly think it is way more complicated than people not giving a ****.

 

[Diego]

Ain't trying to have a dig but I honestly think it is way more complicated than people not giving a ****.

Of course it is, did you miss the bit about the living situation and health of the residents?

My whole answer was in a kind of "protest" way about comparing figures with other countries and the assertion that we tell lies and others don't.

Unlike many on here i take no pride or glee about deaths.

 

[remembercolinlee]

Of course it is, did you miss the bit about the living situation and health of the residents?

My whole answer was in a kind of "protest" way about comparing figures with other countries and the assertion that we tell lies and others don't.

Unlike many on here i take no pride or glee about deaths.

Think I was not clear.
I meant that the reasons that elderly people live in care hlmes rather than with or near their families in houses is more complicated.

As for the death figures I am not aware that anyone is taking pride or glee in them.

I do think there is an increasing amount of anger as we were slow to go into lockdown , which probably cost lives and there is an understandable fear that this could go bad again very quickly as we do not appear to be in the best position to be opening things up again so quickly.

The reasons the Tories are getting so much **** is cos they are making the decisions.

When Blair's Labour Government took us into war with Iraq millions campaigned against them and had nothing to say about the Tories supporting the war cos Labour was in power.
The fact that msny had only ever voted Labour up until then did not stop them slaughtering Labour for their shocking behaviour during that time.
I think it is a similar situation now.

Boris saying he met patients with coronavirus and shook hands with them in early March, Cheltenham going ahead, telling pubs to close on a Friday evening but allowing them to stay open until 11pm that night instead of ordering an immediate shut down, pushing the "herd immunity" possibility, allowing Spanish fans into Britain to watch Liverpool v Athletico Madrid in the CL, not testing hospital patients before sending them back to care homes and not making everyone entering Britain go into isolation are all mistakes which have cost lives.

Everyone hopes the decisions being taken do not go wrong cos more will die, get very ill, lose jobs, businesses and homes if they do.

But the list of mistakes have caused a lot of people to be fearful...and very angry and I think it is thisthat is causing the mistrust of the government and it's figures.

Tbh, the only minister who seems to come out of this looking like he had a clear idea of what needed doing is the Chancellor...I have never voted Tory and do not trust them to not to implement more austerity in the coming months while refusing to make the better off and businesses to pay their share of the costs...but the furloughing scheme (for all it's weaknesses) has saved a hell of a lot of jobs.

Sorry to be so rambly...tired but too hot to sleep

 

[Diego]

Think I was not clear.
I meant that the reasons that elderly people live in care hlmes rather than with or near their families in houses is more complicated.

As for the death figures I am not aware that anyone is taking pride or glee in them.

I do think there is an increasing amount of anger as we were slow to go into lockdown , which probably cost lives and there is an understandable fear that this could go bad again very quickly as we do not appear to be in the best position to be opening things up again so quickly.

The reasons the Tories are getting so much **** is cos they are making the decisions.

When Blair's Labour Government took us into war with Iraq millions campaigned against them and had nothing to say about the Tories supporting the war cos Labour was in power.
The fact that msny had only ever voted Labour up until then did not stop them slaughtering Labour for their shocking behaviour during that time.
I think it is a similar situation now.

Boris saying he met patients with coronavirus and shook hands with them in early March, Cheltenham going ahead, telling pubs to close on a Friday evening but allowing them to stay open until 11pm that night instead of ordering an immediate shut down, pushing the "herd immunity" possibility, allowing Spanish fans into Britain to watch Liverpool v Athletico Madrid in the CL, not testing hospital patients before sending them back to care homes and not making everyone entering Britain go into isolation are all mistakes which have cost lives.

Everyone hopes the decisions being taken do not go wrong cos more will die, get very ill, lose jobs, businesses and homes if they do.

But the list of mistakes have caused a lot of people to be fearful...and very angry and I think it is thisthat is causing the mistrust of the government and it's figures.

Tbh, the only minister who seems to come out of this looking like he had a clear idea of what needed doing is the Chancellor...I have never voted Tory and do not trust them to not to implement more austerity in the coming months while refusing to make the better off and businesses to pay their share of the costs...but the furloughing scheme (for all it's weaknesses) has saved a hell of a lot of jobs.

Sorry to be so rambly...tired but too hot to sleep

I mostly agree with everything you have said here believe it or not

I am not a great political warrior, in fact i couldn't really give a **** about any party.
what i try to be is realistic and when i see situations like we have at present i wonder how someone else would have made things better. It's easy in hindsight to say "these did this or they did that" but what would YOU have done, what would (in our case) Labour have done.
In the current circumstances you have to look at the mentality of the population, our's and Americans is really ****.
I have been seeing BBQs and house party's around my area for at least 3 weeks now (long before the government easing but about when the good weather started).
When do/should we end or ease lockdown, when the "R" number is below 1 or 0.5? remember that when this started the "R" number was zero

Life has to re-start/go on at some point and many will moan about when that happens but few will say when it should.

 

[remembercolinlee]

I mostly agree with everything you have said here believe it or not

I am not a great political warrior, in fact i couldn't really give a **** about any party.
what i try to be is realistic and when i see situations like we have at present i wonder how someone else would have made things better. It's easy in hindsight to say "these did this or they did that" but what would YOU have done, what would (in our case) Labour have done.
In the current circumstances you have to look at the mentality of the population, our's and Americans is really ****.
I have been seeing BBQs and house party's around my area for at least 3 weeks now (long before the government easing but about when the good weather started).
When do/should we end or ease lockdown, when the "R" number is below 1 or 0.5? remember that when this started the "R" number was zero

Life has to re-start/go on at some point and many will moan about when that happens but few will say when it should.

Gotta be honest but ain't seen bbqs or parties in my part of of se London... though I have seen signs that it was breaking a bit in terms of groups (mainly youngish men) meeting up in parks and commons although I went to a wood near where I live in a very well off part of the borough and there were mixed groups of different families all over the place not gollowing any of the rules.

I get the need to get back to work etc but imho I think we are having decisions made that are more about us (as a country) not falling behind other countries cos of a potential loss of trade etc rather than cos it is scientifically safe.

I would have preferred us to unlock areas with a 0.5 % and lower R number first.

I think that would have given people an incentive to be ss strict as possible managing their own behaviours so some areas may have come out earlier.

I'd block off seats on buses, trains and tube so they could not be crammed and tell employers to reopen on a shift type basis so the transport system was not over run.

I would have banned all live sport (football, cricket, horse racing etc) until September.

I would have blocked all roads out of cities/towns worse effected and would guarantee that councils or the NHS only have access to the track and trace app and that it could never be used for any other purpose as it is seriously mistrusted and this will lead to a lot of people not using it.

I know not all of this is not as simple ss I make it sound but the key point for me is that unlocking areas that have a 0.5 R rating first could have got some out of lockdown earlier, allowing some of the economy and schools to open and free up resources for other areas.

 

[Diego]

Gotta be honest but ain't seen bbqs or parties in my part of of se London... though I have seen signs that it was breaking a bit in terms of groups (mainly youngish men) meeting up in parks and commons although I went to a wood near where I live in a very well off part of the borough and there were mixed groups of different families all over the place not gollowing any of the rules.

I get the need to get back to work etc but imho I think we are having decisions made that are more about us (as a country) not falling behind other countries cos of a potential loss of trade etc rather than cos it is scientifically safe.

I would have preferred us to unlock areas with a 0.5 % and lower R number first.

I think that would have given people an incentive to be ss strict as possible managing their own behaviours so some areas may have come out earlier.

I'd block off seats on buses, trains and tube so they could not be crammed and tell employers to reopen on a shift type basis so the transport system was not over run.

I would have banned all live sport (football, cricket, horse racing etc) until September.

I would have blocked all roads out of cities/towns worse effected and would guarantee that councils or the NHS only have access to the track and trace app and that it could never be used for any other purpose as it is seriously mistrusted and this will lead to a lot of people not using it.

I know not all of this is not as simple ss I make it sound but the key point for me is that unlocking areas that have a 0.5 R rating first could have got some out of lockdown earlier, allowing some of the economy and schools to open and free up resources for other areas.

you are one of the few on here i would really like to talk to in person, our views are not too different (regardless of how posts come over) and we could argue about the rest in good spirit i feel

 

[remembercolinlee]

you are one of the few on here i would really like to talk to in person, our views are not too different (regardless of how posts come over) and we could argue about the rest in good spirit i feel

That's cos you have no idea how truely annoying I am

 

[Diego]

That's cos you have no idea how truely annoying I am

 

[Looney Leftie]

Were all these posters that are up in arms about Dominic Cummings, the same when Labour MP’s have been caught out flaunting the rules?

I've lost count of MPs that have/ may have broken the rules. Strange that you only pick Labour MPs when at least half a dozen Tories have also breached rules.

 

[Saf]

That's cos you have no idea how truely annoying I am

You’re misreading the situation, RCL. We think you’re a right twat

 

[Saf]

The report also says that for England it is generally accepted that care home deaths are under reported and the real number is almost double, so the percentage will be higher than the figure headlined by a care home trade body

Yeah it SHOULD be higher, but if ours should be higher then I’ll say that every other country’s should also be higher or is it only England that has underreported?

 

[Saf]

Posters really not happy that England might have the lowest percentage of care home deaths in Europe. This was their main argument

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Posters really not happy that England might have the lowest percentage of care home deaths in Europe. This was their main argument

Is it? We have the second-highest excess death rate in the world behind Peru. I don’t think there’s a positive way to spin that unlike a misleading stat about the share of deaths that have occurred in care homes designed to give people something to cling onto.

 

[Saf]

Is it? We have the second-highest excess death rate in the world behind Peru. I don’t think there’s a positive way to spin that unlike a misleading stat about the share of deaths that have occurred in care homes designed to give people something to cling onto.

Yes.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Yes.

Oh ok.

 

[Saf]

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[Tobes]

Posters really not happy that England might have the lowest percentage of care home deaths in Europe. This was their main argument

We’ve got the highest coronavirus death per million rate in the World, and you’re banging your pan with a spoon in glee over under reported care home deaths?

**** me.

 

[DerekTheMole]

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What?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I expect our share of care home residents making it through this thing won’t compare quite so favourably, which gives me no “glee”.