FPP to take full control

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Kittenmittons said:
But again, they got a great deal. They arguably got a better deal than buying us outright, and at what looks like a decent price even at a worst case of <£20m if we're in the championship, but getting to walk away before that if we never make it without a loss.

I'm struggling to think of negotiations that could go better for someone than Donald coming back to the table and offering them what appears to be a lower price than people think he was asking for, plus an amazing get out of jail free card :D

I just can't see it mate. It makes far more sense that they offered that and his first choice was to get them to buy it all off him up front, walk off into the sunset or as I alluded to yesterday, maybe stay on for a while and help out.
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But Donalds main aim would be to take us to the PL. If he could get us there, with the help of FPP funding (he knows he'd need funding) then he could make a very good profit. He initially wanted to sell, but only for the high price. He then gets the chance to potentially make good money and if he fails they get it cheap. He knows if he's doing a good job they'd happily sit back and see the value of the club rise (and see him get more profit) because it means there's less for them to do on the footballing side. It works for both, but is heavily weighted in FPP's favour as they were the ones proposing it. By the time it got to that stage it sounds like they were already concerned at how much it would cost to get us to the PL. A risk free approach for them would work, and Donald takes it because he doesn't want to sell for a lower value and walk away
 
Lozza80 said:
Well he implies he wont outstay his welcome and Is never in the north east , he has more or less been trying to sell the club from day 1
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He certainly has. I believe things might have changed recently though. Not to say he wouldn't sell, but I think it will take a good offer to get him out
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
He certainly has. I believe things might have changed recently though. Not to say he wouldn't sell, but I think it will take a good offer to get him out
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if you cast your mind back to the summer he practically wasted the whole summer on mark Campbell's interest , our summer transfer window was shocking because of that and as a result we suffered in the league , obviously there was other factors to us being ****.

But to me that doesn't sound like a chairman that wants to be here when coming out will 100 point statements make sure you have the squad to back it up
 
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Guinness Guzzler said:
This. It was a takeover. A takeover that was very near to going through. Plenty of people have said that Methven was mentioning it, the fanzines were all running with it (having been tipped off). Something then changed, given what's been in the press recently its a fairly easy guess to suggest they might have been looking to buy the Sunderland companies through FPP Sunderland, then realised there was a £20m hole and pulled out. Maybe they were told by a broker that SAFC were available for about £40m, they looked at the books and thought "with that £20m due its only £20m which is worth it" only to find there was no intention to deduct the £20m.

They offered a loan heavily weighted in their favour as they still wanted the club if they could get us into a good position, Donald said yes because he was taking absolute pelters for them walking away and was desperate (hence comments saying we didn't really need the loan). Now the loan is in play they could just as easily buy Madrox (especially if there isn't a requirement to pay £20m from there to SAFC) and don't need FPP Sunderland any more, which gets dissolved
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Agree
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
But Donalds main aim would be to take us to the PL. If he could get us there, with the help of FPP funding (he knows he'd need funding) then he could make a very good profit. He initially wanted to sell, but only for the high price. He then gets the chance to potentially make good money and if he fails they get it cheap. He knows if he's doing a good job they'd happily sit back and see the value of the club rise (and see him get more profit) because it means there's less for them to do on the footballing side. It works for both, but is heavily weighted in FPP's favour as they were the ones proposing it. By the time it got to that stage it sounds like they were already concerned at how much it would cost to get us to the PL. A risk free approach for them would work, and Donald takes it because he doesn't want to sell for a lower value and walk away
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I'm not discounting anything, but my belief is that FPP are very seasoned negotiators and that this investment, as we have seen, is very much on their terms. I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that Donald called it a takeover, but it's equally reasonable to say that he may well have believed it could be and that he could even be kept on with a minority stake, until they laid their cards on the table.

At that point, I think it became clear to him that it would not be what he had hoped, and he began to walk back on the terminology, 'clarify' the fan anticipation of a full takeover etc. He realised that selling to these people would be harder than he realised, but that if he could do it, he'd be seen ultimately as the man who put the club in the best position to progress.

And the one thing I would say to consider in all of this is that FPP have consistently stuck by their deal and by every account we have, made no effort to do a majority takeover since. Again, if Donald thought they would be interested, why did he lie about them publicly and say they didnt try to buy a majority share? That was in January, imagine being in that agreement for less than 6 weeks and this guy is lying about you in public?

I don't buy it. He needs them. Not a chance that he went out and characterised them negatively like that unless it's true.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I still believe that FPP did the deal that they wanted, and didnt come back to the table or accept someone else's terms. They're better than that, we have to believe that much :D
 
But in the end, they're all opinions, we may never know. But my gut is that we'll be sold to someone else, and not because Donald wouldn't prefer to sell to FPP, but because they want us to be in the championship.
 
Kittenmittons said:
I'm not discounting anything, but my belief is that FPP are very seasoned negotiators and that this investment, as we have seen, is very much on their terms. I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that Donald called it a takeover, but it's equally reasonable to say that he may well have believed it could be and that he could even be kept on with a minority stake, until they laid their cards on the table.

At that point, I think it became clear to him that it would not be what he had hoped, and he began to walk back on the terminology, 'clarify' the fan anticipation of a full takeover etc. He realised that selling to these people would be harder than he realised, but that if he could do it, he'd be seen ultimately as the man who put the club in the best position to progress.

And the one thing I would say to consider in all of this is that FPP have consistently stuck by their deal and by every account we have, made no effort to do a majority takeover since. Again, if Donald thought they would be interested, why did he lie about them publicly and say they didnt try to buy a majority share? That was in January, imagine being in that agreement for less than 6 weeks and this guy is lying about you in public?

I don't buy it. He needs them. Not a chance that he went out and characterised them negatively like that unless it's true.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I still believe that FPP did the deal that they wanted, and didnt come back to the table or accept someone else's terms. They're better than that, we have to believe that much :D
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"I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that Donald called it a takeover, but it's equally reasonable to say that he may well have believed it could be."

As you say, just opinions.

I'd say that its totally unreasonable to think that Donald was informing the club manager, making comments in public and talking about being kept on based entirely on 'a belief' ....

... that would take a level of stupidity that I don't think even Donald is capable of.

It seems that most people believe that there was a takeover agreed and the goalposts were moved in some way ...

... I'm one of those people.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
"I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that Donald called it a takeover, but it's equally reasonable to say that he may well have believed it could be."

As you say, just opinions.

I'd say that its totally unreasonable to think that Donald was informing the club manager, making comments in public and talking about being kept on based entirely on 'a belief' ....

... that would take a level of stupidity that I don't think even Donald is capable of.

It seems that most people believe that there was a takeover agreed and the goalposts were moved in some way ...

... I'm one of those people.
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I think the Grigg signing is a good indication of the level we are referring to?
 
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Smug in Boots said:
"I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that Donald called it a takeover, but it's equally reasonable to say that he may well have believed it could be."

As you say, just opinions.

I'd say that its totally unreasonable to think that Donald was informing the club manager, making comments in public and talking about being kept on based entirely on 'a belief' ....

... that would take a level of stupidity that I don't think even Donald is capable of.

It seems that most people believe that there was a takeover agreed and the goalposts were moved in some way ...
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Why would it be stupid?

They came to look at the clubs books, they wanted to do something. At that stage he would have been hoping it was a takeover, or something that led to them taking a majority stake. I don't think it's that stupid to describe it in those terms to people who dont know anything about the details, or to get it wrong.

And how were the goalposts moved? If they were, the most logical outcome is FPP walking away. Just because a bunch of people gravitate towards the most palatable solution (ie: blaming Donald) doesnt make it true, sadly. I think FPP took a look at the books and made an offer they were comfortable with. I doubt from what they have now and what Donald said quite candidly about it in January, that there was much scope for price negotiation or deal structure.

And again, they have a price, right now, that they think is fair. It's on the table and probably somewhere around the bare minimum Donald wants. Why aren't they majority owners? Why would Donald lie about their intentions after only 5-6 weeks if his ultimate aim is to get them to be majority owners and eventually buy him out?

None of it makes sense to me, but maybe I'm wrong. It just looks like they liked the idea of us from the outside (again, I suspect CM oversold it to them), but once they did their DD it just wasn't quite the easy win they were hoping for, and the offer reflected that. No real fault of Donald imo, his price doesn't look that unreasonable.
 
Kittenmittons said:
Why would it be stupid?

They came to look at the clubs books, they wanted to do something. At that stage he would have been hoping it was a takeover, or something that led to them taking a majority stake. I don't think it's that stupid to describe it in those terms to people who dont know anything about the details, or to get it wrong.

And how were the goalposts moved? If they were, the most logical outcome is FPP walking away. Just because a bunch of people gravitate towards the most palatable solution (ie: blaming Donald) doesnt make it true, sadly. I think FPP took a look at the books and made an offer they were comfortable with. I doubt from what they have now and what Donald said quite candidly about it in January, that there was much scope for price negotiation or deal structure.

And again, they have a price, right now, that they think is fair. It's on the table and probably somewhere around the bare minimum Donald wants. Why aren't they majority owners? Why would Donald lie about their intentions after only 5-6 weeks if his ultimate aim is to get them to be majority owners and eventually buy him out?

None of it makes sense to me, but maybe I'm wrong. It just looks like they liked the idea of us from the outside (again, I suspect CM oversold it to them), but once they did their DD it just wasn't quite the easy win they were hoping for, and the offer reflected that. No real fault of Donald imo, his price doesn't look that unreasonable.
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There's no way that announcing a multi-million pound takeover, without it being true, is anything but stupid.

It's acceptable for daft fans to get completely carried away ...

.. not for owners of a club where thousands are hanging on every word.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
"I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that Donald called it a takeover, but it's equally reasonable to say that he may well have believed it could be."

As you say, just opinions.

I'd say that its totally unreasonable to think that Donald was informing the club manager, making comments in public and talking about being kept on based entirely on 'a belief' ....

... that would take a level of stupidity that I don't think even Donald is capable of.

It seems that most people believe that there was a takeover agreed and the goalposts were moved in some way ...

... I'm one of those people.
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me too.
 
What goalposts do people think he moved? And why do people think he said they didn't make an offer for the majority?
 
Kittenmittons said:
What goalposts do people think he moved? And why do people think he said they didn't make an offer for the majority?
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Im not sure if you are just on a wind up or what.
Goalspost: Donald and DJ told all and sundry it was a takeover, the new ‘owners’ were introduced to Jack Ross.
Something then happened for them not to takeover.
For Donald say they didn’t make an offer is covering his backside after all the bluff he spouted, they may not have offered it all but he shot his load owa early so had to backtrack and that was his way of doing so
 
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wearside wanderer II said:
Im not sure if you are just on a wind up or what.
Goalspost: Donald and DJ told all and sundry it was a takeover, the new ‘owners’ were introduced to Jack Ross.
Something then happened for them not to takeover.
For Donald say they didn’t make an offer is covering his backside after all the bluff he spouted, they may not have offered it all but he shot his load owa early so had to backtrack and that was his way of doing so
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But I'm saying, after that deal, with FPP still in play and him knowing that he'll have to get them to do something in future, why did he lie publicly about them? Can you not see why that would be incredibly bad form?

And I asked what goalposts you think moved, I get that you think they did, that's fine, I'm just asking, what do people think changed?
 
wearside wanderer II said:
Im not sure if you are just on a wind up or what.
Goalposts: Donald and DJ told all and sundry it was a takeover, the new ‘owners’ were introduced to Jack Ross.
Something then happened for them not to takeover.
For Donald say they didn’t make an offer is covering his backside after all the bluff he spouted, they may not have offered it all but he shot his load owa early so had to backtrack and that was his way of doing so
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We should've guessed when Donald ordered new ones ...

https://www.networldsports.fr/7-3m-...9EiJINjh6kuHZ58p8EkUDNZ8pAdLmwAcaArVSEALw_wcB
 
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