Off Topic Coronavirus

[ELLERS]

Don’t let it go to your head, running dog capitalist Redwood stooge.

Normal service has been resumed.

you're just jealous that your MP doesn't take you on a tour of The House of Commons and Lords.

 

[sb_73]

you're just jealous that your MP doesn't take you on a tour of The House of Commons and Lords.

Not really, I’ve had that with a previous Secretary of State for Health and also had tea and biscuits with the Prime Minister’ special advisor on health and the same Secretary of State at 10 Downing Street. Some years ago I’d stress, and for work reasons.

I’d be quite happy if they demolished parliament it’s a hideous building.

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

What has my like or dislike for Tories got to do with anything. That's what some people dont understand. This could be any party and if they acted in this way I would feel exactly the same! If it were Labour or Lib Dems, I could imagine Ellers, yourself and others demanding resignations over the incompetence. I myself only hold the government in power to account, regardless of ifs and buts. It's disgusting that we continuously put up with it. Some are happy and some see the corruption. I could just as easily say that people refuse to see the ****show because they are Tories. I haven't said that because I hope to believe people arent that simple.

I’ll put it this way Bob, it’s probably simpler.
The Goverment give the NHS £145 billion Annually, the NHS pays its head of procurement £200,000 per annum to “procure things”
The government tells the NHS tell us what you want and we’ll fund it, if then the idiot NHS head of procurement tells the government it needs 5million lollipops and the government funds them to get 5 million lollipops but they actually needed 5 million pairs of gloves, is the government at fault or the ****ing idiot who bought lollipops at fault.
Maybe I worded it wrong Bob I don’t know, but it’s easy to bash the Government, we all do it at times, but to continually bash The Government when clearly it’s not their fault all the time does tend to wear thin after awhile.
And yes I would say the same if labour were in power, sometimes we all look for a scapegoats because they are easier to blame than the people who really did it, if maybe the ****ing mainstream media got their facts right and stopped sensationalising every story with continually blaming the Government for the shortfalls in PPE etc and printed the truth for once we might all see it in a different way.
I understand your frustration Bob, but just for once try looking at the other side of the page, you might see a different story.
Argument aside , how is Mrs Bob ?

 

[Staines R's]

I’ll put it this way Bob, it’s probably simpler.
The Goverment give the NHS £145 billion Annually, the NHS pays its head of procurement £200,000 per annum to “procure things”
The government tells the NHS tell us what you want and we’ll fund it, if then the idiot NHS head of procurement tells the government it needs 5million lollipops and the government funds them to get 5 million lollipops but they actually needed 5 million pairs of gloves, is the government at fault or the ****ing idiot who bought lollipops at fault.
Maybe I worded it wrong Bob I don’t know, but it’s easy to bash the Government, we all do it at times, but to continually bash The Government when clearly it’s not their fault all the time does tend to wear thin after awhile.
And yes I would say the same if labour were in power, sometimes we all look for a scapegoats because they are easier to blame than the people who really did it, if maybe the ****ing mainstream media got their facts right and stopped sensationalising every story with continually blaming the Government for the shortfalls in PPE etc and printed the truth for once we might all see it in a different way.
I understand your frustration Bob, but just for once try looking at the other side of the page, you might see a different story.
Argument aside , how is Mrs Bob ?

How about if the vastly overpaid head of procurement orders in 10,000 boxes of gloves but instead gets 1000 gowns delivered.....or even has to go and source some from channels other than the governments official one ?

 

[sb_73]

I’ll put it this way Bob, it’s probably simpler.
The Goverment give the NHS £145 billion Annually, the NHS pays its head of procurement £200,000 per annum to “procure things”
The government tells the NHS tell us what you want and we’ll fund it, if then the idiot NHS head of procurement tells the government it needs 5million lollipops and the government funds them to get 5 million lollipops but they actually needed 5 million pairs of gloves, is the government at fault or the ****ing idiot who bought lollipops at fault.
Maybe I worded it wrong Bob I don’t know, but it’s easy to bash the Government, we all do it at times, but to continually bash The Government when clearly it’s not their fault all the time does tend to wear thin after awhile.
And yes I would say the same if labour were in power, sometimes we all look for a scapegoats because they are easier to blame than the people who really did it, if maybe the ****ing mainstream media got their facts right and stopped sensationalising every story with continually blaming the Government for the shortfalls in PPE etc and printed the truth for once we might all see it in a different way.
I understand your frustration Bob, but just for once try looking at the other side of the page, you might see a different story.
Argument aside , how is Mrs Bob ?

That’s not how it works Turkish. The government allocates budgets to Clinical Commissioning Groups, lead by GPs who are self employed, and they buy services from hospitals and ambulance trusts etc on behalf of the residents of their areas. NHS procurement buys the supplies which the hospitals need to deliver the contracts they have with CCGs. Now if no one says we are going to give you a shedload of cash to buy PPE in case there is a pandemic, they are not going to have the cash to buy PPE are they?

It’s what is laughingly called an ‘internal market’ and it doesn’t work very well as there isn’t enough money in the system, so Trusts end up making a loss on the services they deliver. There is just no spare cash to stockpile things that no one higher in the food chain has said should be stockpiled.

 

[ELLERS]

French Cancel football season.

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

That’s not how it works Turkish. The government allocates budgets to Clinical Commissioning Groups, lead by GPs who are self employed, and they buy services from hospitals and ambulance trusts etc on behalf of the residents of their areas. NHS procurement buys the supplies which the hospitals need to deliver the contracts they have with CCGs. Now if no one says we are going to give you a shedload of cash to buy PPE in case there is a pandemic, they are not going to have the cash to buy PPE are they?

It’s what is laughingly called an ‘internal market’ and it doesn’t work very well as there isn’t enough money in the system, so Trusts end up making a loss on the services they deliver. There is just no spare cash to stockpile things that no one higher in the food chain has said should be stockpiled.

Yes but the Government told them the cash was available and they still didn’t get it, so who is too Blame is my argument.

 

[bobmid]

I’ll put it this way Bob, it’s probably simpler.
The Goverment give the NHS £145 billion Annually, the NHS pays its head of procurement £200,000 per annum to “procure things”
The government tells the NHS tell us what you want and we’ll fund it, if then the idiot NHS head of procurement tells the government it needs 5million lollipops and the government funds them to get 5 million lollipops but they actually needed 5 million pairs of gloves, is the government at fault or the ****ing idiot who bought lollipops at fault.
Maybe I worded it wrong Bob I don’t know, but it’s easy to bash the Government, we all do it at times, but to continually bash The Government when clearly it’s not their fault all the time does tend to wear thin after awhile.
And yes I would say the same if labour were in power, sometimes we all look for a scapegoats because they are easier to blame than the people who really did it, if maybe the ****ing mainstream media got their facts right and stopped sensationalising every story with continually blaming the Government for the shortfalls in PPE etc and printed the truth for once we might all see it in a different way.
I understand your frustration Bob, but just for once try looking at the other side of the page, you might see a different story.
Argument aside , how is Mrs Bob ?

I have tried to look at the other side of the page and all that appears are misleading quotes, facts, statistics and absolutely zero transparancy. Mrs ain't too bad ta. Hows you lot?

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

How about if the vastly overpaid head of procurement orders in 10,000 boxes of gloves but instead gets 1000 gowns delivered.....or even has to go and source some from channels other than the governments official one ?

The goverment doesn’t have supply channels I’m pretty sure, the NHS does though, so if the gowns arrive instead of gloves, how is that the Governments fault, it’s still down to the NHS supply chain and that I’m afraid is the problem, everybody is blaming everybody else because human nature says it’s somebody else’s fault every time something goes wrong, never their own and until we have one person in the NHS in charge of procurement Nationally instead of several separate regional trusts we will still get the same ****ty problem every time we have a national emergency.

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

I have tried to look at the other side of the page and all that appears are misleading quotes, facts, statistics and absolutely zero transparancy. Mrs ain't too bad ta. Hows you lot?

So on my page (the other side to you ) seems to me to be the same to me on your page, ( my other side of the page ) have to agree to disagree I’m afraid.
We are all well this end, Mrs Turkish going stir crazy now, she needs to go out further than the back or front garden to remain sane I fear, I’m getting a few days work in a week, so I’m getting out rather than just the shops once a week.

 

[Staines R's]

The goverment doesn’t have supply channels I’m pretty sure, the NHS does though, so if the gowns arrive instead of gloves, how is that the Governments fault, it’s still down to the NHS supply chain and that I’m afraid is the problem, everybody is blaming everybody else because human nature says it’s somebody else’s fault every time something goes wrong, never their own and until we have one person in the NHS in charge of procurement Nationally instead of several separate regional trusts we will still get the same ****ty problem every time we have a national emergency.

That’s weird ‘cos I’m sure the Panorama programme spoke of the government stating that their was no shortage of PPE in the stockpile, blaming logistical reasons for shortages. The government also stated that it had built a whole new distribution network, also using the army to ‘sort it out’
A number of heads of procurement stated that this still wasn’t working and incorrect PPE was being delivered and supplies not met, meaning that they have to ‘scramble’ to get supplies from elsewhere.
One was quoted as saying ‘the supply chain is erratic, unpredictable and incompetent’.

 

[sb_73]

Yes but the Government told them the cash was available and they still didn’t get it, so who is too Blame is my argument.

That’s a ‘but these go to 11’ argument.

The government (Hancock put his name to it) issued guidance on who had to wear PPE on 2 April, less than a month ago (it’s been revised multiple times since) and more on how the PPE would be delivered and future supply on 10 April (not so long ago!). Here is the guidance:
https://assets.publishing.service.g..._personal_protective_equipment__PPE__plan.pdf
Now, you might want to blame whoever, but by this time the entire world was trying to buy PPE. Read the document to see how the system is meant to work. Despite claiming that we had a ‘considerable stockpile’ of PPE it is recognised that the scale of need was such that this has to be run centrally - the sourcing and purchase is managed by the department of health - not NHS procurement, not NHS England, not individual hospitals. The department of Health is Matt Hancock’s personal responsibility.


1.59 The Department of Health and Social Care is leading the sourcing and payment of all PPE for the public sector to ensure the UK operates swiftly and decisively in the global market for PPE - ensuring alignment across UK Government Departments and Devolved Administrations and giving a clear view of the supply coming in to the country. We continue to work on the basis that availability of funding should not prevent the right actions being taken at pace, so that those that need PPE receive it.

Make sense? Thank you for prompting me to do some proper looking in to this. Now his officials might have lied to Hancock about what was possible, or they might all just be making it up as they go along, but this is in no way the fault of people in hospitals or the local NHS.

 

[ELLERS]

Not really, I’ve had that with a previous Secretary of State for Health and also had tea and biscuits with the Prime Minister’ special advisor on health and the same Secretary of State at 10 Downing Street. Some years ago I’d stress, and for work reasons.

I’d be quite happy if they demolished parliament it’s a hideous building.

You probably would, however many more people in this country respect that amazing historical building.
I had tea and sandwiches with Prince Charles once. I won't name drop with my Tory contacts/meetings. Although I did turn down dinner and after-dinner speech with May before she was PM.

 

[sb_73]

You probably would, however many more people in this country respect that amazing historical building.
I had tea and sandwiches with Prince Charles once. I won't name drop with my Tory contacts/meetings. Although I did turn down dinner and after-dinner speech with May before she was PM.

Ooh you probably win then, I’m incredibly impressed.

Our architectural tastes clearly differ. A building can be ugly and historic at the same time. I struggle to ‘respect’ a building, and I certainly don’t respect what goes on in that one, but that’s for another thread.

 

[ELLERS]

Ooh you probably win then, I’m incredibly impressed.

Our architectural tastes clearly differ. A building can be ugly and historic at the same time. I struggle to ‘respect’ a building, and I certainly don’t respect what goes on in that one, but that’s for another thread.

Agree we can save this for the politics thread when you return.

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

That’s weird ‘cos I’m sure the Panorama programme spoke of the government stating that their was no shortage of PPE in the stockpile, blaming logistical reasons for shortages. The government also stated that it had built a whole new distribution network, also using the army to ‘sort it out’
A number of heads of procurement stated that this still wasn’t working and incorrect PPE was being delivered and supplies not met, meaning that they have to ‘scramble’ to get supplies from elsewhere.
One was quoted as saying ‘the supply chain is erratic, unpredictable and incompetent’.

The Government stayed there was no shortage in the stockpile, now unless Hancock went down and counted it himself I assume they were quoting the advice given them by NHS management, and again have the Government called in the army because they are aware the NHS supply chain is erratic and is sending the wrong stuff to the wrong place, it’s all if’s and but’s at the moment, and like you I fear we will never really find out who is responsible because the buck will be passed down the food chain so to speak until poor Joe Bloggs a lowly clerk will be blamed, all the big bosses will pick up their well done bonuses, and life will return to normal until the next crises and poor old Joe Bloggs will lose his job and his pension.
I’m afraid though it’s all quotes and “ I heard” or “ he said” at the moment and we’ll never know.
Stay safe out there mate and keep up the good work.

 

[Staines R's]

The Government stayed there was no shortage in the stockpile, now unless Hancock went down and counted it himself I assume they were quoting the advice given them by NHS management, and again have the Government called in the army because they are aware the NHS supply chain is erratic and is sending the wrong stuff to the wrong place, it’s all if’s and but’s at the moment, and like you I fear we will never really find out who is responsible because the buck will be passed down the food chain so to speak until poor Joe Bloggs a lowly clerk will be blamed, all the big bosses will pick up their well done bonuses, and life will return to normal until the next crises and poor old Joe Bloggs will lose his job and his pension.
I’m afraid though it’s all quotes and “ I heard” or “ he said” at the moment and we’ll never know.
Stay safe out there mate and keep up the good work.

But mate, surely if it’s the governments distribution network the buck falls with the government. And honestly I really don’t get how NHS management are responsible for the countries stock piles....I would of thought, again, that’s the responsibility of the government.
I rather not blame the lowly clerk........much better to blame the **** at the top...that’s what he/she is paid handsomely for.

 

[Sooperhoop]

I hope other countries will back Australia but I won't be holding my breath...

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[Staines R's]

Nice to see my old company turning a crisis to their advantage.

Cant say I expected anything less of them.

 

[danishqp]

How about if the vastly overpaid head of procurement orders in 10,000 boxes of gloves but instead gets 1000 gowns delivered.....or even has to go and source some from channels other than the governments official one ?

Oy Oy - I normally respect your posts that provide great insight on reality.
Please stop this referral to overpaid Heads of Procurement, they are essential workers didn’t you know.
Without our Power Points Senior Management wouldn’t have anything to talk about at our many, many vital meetings
Stay safe