Off Topic Coronavirus

[bobmid]

Woody always alluded to the virus being downgraded back in March. I just thought they hadn't updated

I can understand incompetence.....it’s just part of being human...but to blatantly go out and attempt to mislead, misinform and cheat, thus putting mine, my families and my colleagues lives at risk is unforgivable.
Shame on them and all their houses

Absolutely. They have deliberately mislead the whole country but more importantly they have helped the death rate increase, for which there needs to be answers immediately.

 

[bobmid]

We wont get any though cos they just lie through their teeth. Evade and deflect and if necessary kill. What a democratic society we live in when the powers that be deliberately mislead people and help kill them!

 

[bobmid]

I feel for people like you Staines and my sister in law and all the other NHS staff. You deserve so much better than this absolute shower of **** that's in charge. But hey ho , let's have a minutes silence for the people we have killed.

 

[qprbeth]

So the story last night on Panorama about the millions of PPE equipment being ...bags and cleaning materials and individual gloves.
We ordered a lot of PPE gloves for our lab, we use sterile cells, bacteria and virus and never the 3 should meet.


The individual gloves story shocked me completely. You never count gloves or simple masks in single numbers...they come in boxes and packs.
That is disingenuous in the extreme, and manipulative. I would really like to know if this is really true

 

[bobmid]

So the story last night on Panorama about the millions of PPE equipment being ...bags and cleaning materials and individual gloves.
We ordered a lot of PPE gloves for our lab, we use sterile cells, bacteria and virus and never the 3 should meet.


The individual gloves story shocked me completely. You never count gloves or simple masks in single numbers...they come in boxes and packs.
That is disingenuous in the extreme, and manipulative. I would really like to know if this is really true

My mrs sister said that they would count gloves individually and I just laughed. She said she was being serious and I nearly spat my brew out.

 

[stick]

Some numbers for you gents here, sorry ifyou know all these already but I am not trawling back to see.
w/e 3rd April UK deaths 16,387 covid deaths 2,846
w/e 1oth April UK deaths 18,516 covid deaths 5,353
w/e 17th April UK deaths 22,351 covid deaths 5,618

Just to explain this. The weekly mortality rate in the UK is an average of 10,500 per week. In winter months it rises for obvious reasons but in spring it is usually at the monthly average. A bad result in April would be 12.5k

If you look at the numbers above and take the covid reported deaths off the actual and then subtract the monthly average you are left with a figure of "unexplained" deaths. My logical brain tells me that this is the number of people dying of the virus that are not being included in the figures. Give or take a few hundred. so those numbers are;

w/e 3rd April = 3,041
w/e 10th April = 2,663
w/e 17th April = 6,233

That is 12,000 people over and above what the government figures are admitting to!

The number of deaths in the UK on the w/e 17th April was the HIGHEST recorded since records started being collected by the ONS.

If we were honestly counting all deaths that could be attributed to covid, ie those that die at home and in care homes (the government number is hospital tested deaths only) we would be top of the table for deaths in the whole of Europe!

 

[bobmid]

Some numbers for you gents here, sorry ifyou know all these already but I am not trawling back to see.
w/e 3rd April UK deaths 16,387 covid deaths 2,846
w/e 1oth April UK deaths 18,516 covid deaths 5,353
w/e 17th April UK deaths 22,351 covid deaths 5,618

Just to explain this. The weekly mortality rate in the UK is an average of 10,500 per week. In winter months it rises for obvious reasons but in spring it is usually at the monthly average. A bad result in April would be 12.5k

If you look at the numbers above and take the covid reported deaths off the actual and then subtract the monthly average you are left with a figure of "unexplained" deaths. My logical brain tells me that this is the number of people dying of the virus that are not being included in the figures. Give or take a few hundred. so those numbers are;

w/e 3rd April = 3,041
w/e 10th April = 2,663
w/e 17th April = 6,233

That is 12,000 people over and above what the government figures are admitting to!

The number of deaths in the UK on the w/e 17th April was the HIGHEST recorded since records started being collected by the ONS.

If we were honestly counting all deaths that could be attributed to covid, ie those that die at home and in care homes (the government number is hospital tested deaths only) we would be top of the table for deaths in the whole of Europe!

This corrupt government dont want you to see that on a graph. It's gone beyond mistakes and beyond incompetence.

 

[sb_73]

Until recent years, the UK was supposedly admired around the world for its pandemic preparedness. The 2016 Cygnus report highlighted the need to stockpile PPE, but this government ignored that advice.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/

You know how I feel about this government (well all governments, but this one is pretty venal). However, it is a legitimate government decision not to invest in something, even against expert advice. Deciding what, if anything, to spend taxpayers money on is the core of modern government. In this instance they clearly ****ed up big time, and have probably tried to cover it up as ineptly as they do everything and we will have endless attacks on them as a result. Fine, but it was still a legitimate decision, just wrong.

Having read the article it seems it was the board of NHS England who decided to ignore the result rather than the government. It’s also a shame that various people who took part in Cygnus and were apparently appalled at the lack of action that resulted only feel able to talk about it now rather than going to the press in 2016. It also seems that there was an element of ‘the boy who cried wolf’ as the previous 2 doom scenario pandemics that the Public Health leaders got hot and bothered about - swine flu and Ebola- were based on very wrong forecasting.

Anyway, we all knew that Cygnus wasn’t acted on weeks ago.

This whole thing has now become hopelessly politicised on here, all those who have always hated the Tories will find nothing to support on anything with this government, those who voted for them will be more inclined to defend them/blame others (though I have to say that Col and unbelievably Ellers on occasion have both criticised the government in some aspects of this). It’s the same in the media and amongst the chattering classes. The unfortunate consequence is that legitimate criticism gets drowned out by points scoring. All in my opinion of course.

This is a global pandemic for which the globe was unprepared. I don’t think the UK is handling it as well as some other places and I think the over promising from the government has been ridiculous. But I’d rather we tried to get on with getting it over with and leave the **** excavation until after, unless we know that digging it up now is actually going to help in some way.

 

[stick]

This corrupt government dont want you to see that on a graph. It's gone beyond mistakes and beyond incompetence.

Nobody wants to be seen to be doing a bad job Bob.
I am sure it will all get sorted now that Boris is back from his holidays.

 

[Stroller]

So the story last night on Panorama about the millions of PPE equipment being ...bags and cleaning materials and individual gloves.
We ordered a lot of PPE gloves for our lab, we use sterile cells, bacteria and virus and never the 3 should meet.


The individual gloves story shocked me completely. You never count gloves or simple masks in single numbers...they come in boxes and packs.
That is disingenuous in the extreme, and manipulative. I would really like to know if this is really true

The counting of individual gloves is just a shameless attempt to manipulate the figures, it's what they do all the time. What's far more sinister is the downgrading of the virus from its HCID classification, potentially condemning healthcare workers to death through their being forced to work with PPE that's not fit for purpose.

 

[Staines R's]

So the story last night on Panorama about the millions of PPE equipment being ...bags and cleaning materials and individual gloves.
We ordered a lot of PPE gloves for our lab, we use sterile cells, bacteria and virus and never the 3 should meet.


The individual gloves story shocked me completely. You never count gloves or simple masks in single numbers...they come in boxes and packs.
That is disingenuous in the extreme, and manipulative. I would really like to know if this is really true

Me and my crewmate were talking about the ‘gloves’ thing the other day.
One one single COVID job we would use about 20 individual gloves between 2 of us......at a push it might by 16....so on average 5 jobs a day...that’s 100 individual gloves each crew per day.....when you think of it like that it’s little wonder that we see the supplies being provided as inadequate.

 

[Stroller]

You know how I feel about this government (well all governments, but this one is pretty venal). However, it is a legitimate government decision not to invest in something, even against expert advice. Deciding what, if anything, to spend taxpayers money on is the core of modern government. In this instance they clearly ****ed up big time, and have probably tried to cover it up as ineptly as they do everything and we will have endless attacks on them as a result. Fine, but it was still a legitimate decision, just wrong.

Having read the article it seems it was the board of NHS England who decided to ignore the result rather than the government. It’s also a shame that various people who took part in Cygnus and were apparently appalled at the lack of action that resulted only feel able to talk about it now rather than going to the press in 2016. It also seems that there was an element of ‘the boy who cried wolf’ as the previous 2 doom scenario pandemics that the Public Health leaders got hot and bothered about - swine flu and Ebola- were based on very wrong forecasting.

Anyway, we all knew that Cygnus wasn’t acted on weeks ago.

This whole thing has now become hopelessly politicised on here, all those who have always hated the Tories will find nothing to support on anything with this government, those who voted for them will be more inclined to defend them/blame others (though I have to say that Col and unbelievably Ellers on occasion have both criticised the government in some aspects of this). It’s the same in the media and amongst the chattering classes. The unfortunate consequence is that legitimate criticism gets drowned out by points scoring. All in my opinion of course.

This is a global pandemic for which the globe was unprepared. I don’t think the UK is handling it as well as some other places and I think the over promising from the government has been ridiculous. But I’d rather we tried to get on with getting it over with and leave the **** excavation until after, unless we know that digging it up now is actually going to help in some way.

Whilst the government continues with its daily propaganda broadcasts, where they lie about their actions and distort statistics, I think it's legitimate to call them out on those lies and misrepresentations. It's not just criticism because they're Tories, I was happy to support the government's initial herd immunity approach and I supported Sunak's monetary intervention.

There's a groundswell now from those that support the government to push blame towards the NHS. I'm sure that many mistakes have been made by NHS management and officials, but it's the government that's ultimately responsible.

 

[bobmid]

Whilst the government continues with its daily propaganda broadcasts, where they lie about their actions and distort statistics, I think it's legitimate to call them out on those lies and misrepresentations. It's not just criticism because they're Tories, I was happy to support the government's initial herd immunity approach.

There's a groundswell now from those that support the government to push blame towards the NHS. I'm sure that many mistakes have been made by NHS management and officials, but it's the government that's ultimately responsible.

There are no excuses! Its negligence not mistakes

 

[sb_73]

Some numbers for you gents here, sorry ifyou know all these already but I am not trawling back to see.
w/e 3rd April UK deaths 16,387 covid deaths 2,846
w/e 1oth April UK deaths 18,516 covid deaths 5,353
w/e 17th April UK deaths 22,351 covid deaths 5,618

Just to explain this. The weekly mortality rate in the UK is an average of 10,500 per week. In winter months it rises for obvious reasons but in spring it is usually at the monthly average. A bad result in April would be 12.5k

If you look at the numbers above and take the covid reported deaths off the actual and then subtract the monthly average you are left with a figure of "unexplained" deaths. My logical brain tells me that this is the number of people dying of the virus that are not being included in the figures. Give or take a few hundred. so those numbers are;

w/e 3rd April = 3,041
w/e 10th April = 2,663
w/e 17th April = 6,233

That is 12,000 people over and above what the government figures are admitting to!

The number of deaths in the UK on the w/e 17th April was the HIGHEST recorded since records started being collected by the ONS.

If we were honestly counting all deaths that could be attributed to covid, ie those that die at home and in care homes (the government number is hospital tested deaths only) we would be top of the table for deaths in the whole of Europe!

Well this is my obsession, these ‘excess all cause deaths’. They are happening in lots of countries.

And the government have made a rod for their own backs by failing to communicate clearly about these different sets of statistics, though I don’t think it’s a cover up, they lack the talent for that.

 

[stick]

Well this is my obsession, these ‘excess all cause deaths’. They are happening in lots of countries.

And the government have made a rod for their own backs by failing to communicate clearly about these different sets of statistics, though I don’t think it’s a cover up, they lack the talent for that.

I dont think you can make any other assumption than these deaths are virus related
There are currently no post-mortems being carried out in the UK so unless someone was tested their death is not included in the figures
In short the UK number is very basic, people in hospital who tested positive prior to death
In years to come the statisticians will claim a n umber based around how I do my working out. This is not unusual as every virus has a base number and an assumed number. The government will of course claim that they had no choice but to only use the accountable figure.

I dont think this can be used for political debate as its unfair to hold account anyone who is thrown into a near unforeseeable set of circumstances. However, one would hope that lessons have been learned.

My biggest fear in all this is that we fail to eradicate it and it returns with a vengeance this Winter. If that were to happen the outcome would be truly catastrophic.

 

[ELLERS]

Well this is my obsession, these ‘excess all cause deaths’. They are happening in lots of countries.

And the government have made a rod for their own backs by failing to communicate clearly about these different sets of statistics, though I don’t think it’s a cover up, they lack the talent for that.

We also need to understand that this is a World pandemic and sadly people are going to die so the death rate will be more. I agree with your comment re 'cover-up' that in itself is stupid because all the deaths are recorded. Maybe you are right in that the communication could have been better.

 

[qprbeth]

These unexpected deaths make me so much more worried, actually scare me a lot.

People dying at home...why did they not get help?
Not all of them are alone, and even if they are why not phone for help.....
Or are all of them too scared to go to hospital...surely no.
......is it because death is more rapid and sudden.


Do they have limited symptoms, and suddenly breathlessness becomes an inability to breathe?
Does it affect the heart resulting in heart attacks?
Is the virus cause other vital organ failure?

Are some of the deaths a bit more "out of the blue" and unexpected and sudden

Any idea Stainsey

 

[NigsyHoops]

Jennifer Saunders has disclaimed it completely on twitter.. Has said the whole thing is a fake site and nothing to do with her at all

Thanks Beth, can the mod's delete this then please.

 

[Tramore Ranger]

You know how I feel about this government (well all governments, but this one is pretty venal). However, it is a legitimate government decision not to invest in something, even against expert advice. Deciding what, if anything, to spend taxpayers money on is the core of modern government. In this instance they clearly ****ed up big time, and have probably tried to cover it up as ineptly as they do everything and we will have endless attacks on them as a result. Fine, but it was still a legitimate decision, just wrong.

Having read the article it seems it was the board of NHS England who decided to ignore the result rather than the government. It’s also a shame that various people who took part in Cygnus and were apparently appalled at the lack of action that resulted only feel able to talk about it now rather than going to the press in 2016. It also seems that there was an element of ‘the boy who cried wolf’ as the previous 2 doom scenario pandemics that the Public Health leaders got hot and bothered about - swine flu and Ebola- were based on very wrong forecasting.

Anyway, we all knew that Cygnus wasn’t acted on weeks ago.

This whole thing has now become hopelessly politicised on here, all those who have always hated the Tories will find nothing to support on anything with this government, those who voted for them will be more inclined to defend them/blame others (though I have to say that Col and unbelievably Ellers on occasion have both criticised the government in some aspects of this). It’s the same in the media and amongst the chattering classes. The unfortunate consequence is that legitimate criticism gets drowned out by points scoring. All in my opinion of course.

This is a global pandemic for which the globe was unprepared. I don’t think the UK is handling it as well as some other places and I think the over promising from the government has been ridiculous. But I’d rather we tried to get on with getting it over with and leave the **** excavation until after, unless we know that digging it up now is actually going to help in some way.

Top Post Stan...….

 

[stick]

These unexpected deaths make me so much more worried, actually scare me a lot.

People dying at home...why did they not get help?
Not all of them are alone, and even if they are why not phone for help.....
Or are all of them too scared to go to hospital...surely no.
......is it because death is more rapid and sudden.


Do they have limited symptoms, and suddenly breathlessness becomes an inability to breathe?
Does it affect the heart resulting in heart attacks?
Is the virus cause other vital organ failure?

Are some of the deaths a bit more "out of the blue" and unexpected and sudden

Any idea Stainsey

Sadly Beth I believe a lot of people have been scared and talked out of going to hospital. In these figures there will be a huge number of deaths in care homes. I would also imagine that a lot of sick people at home are unable to get a visit from their GP's and we know that a lot of practices are closed.
I know from personal experience that many of those being treated in hospital are merely having end of life management as their condition is beyond repair.
Sadly also the suicide rate is up. Anyone in an already fragile state can easily feel overwhelmed in the current climate.